Rajeev Suri: You don't get people to join you these days, also stay with you for long periods of time if you don't have a purpose that resonates with them, that is sort of above and beyond making just profits. I do believe in the power of technology to improve the world, but only if you have an ability to constantly embrace it. Andrew White: Hello, and thank you for listening to this episode of Leadership 2050, a podcast about business leadership that's fit for the 21st century. I'm your host, Andrew White from Oxford University's Saïd Business School. My guest is the man who's been called a turnaround specialist in global tech circles, Rajeev Suri. For 25 years, Rajeev worked for Nokia, and a CEO reinvented the company following the sale of its handset business. Two years ago, he joined the global satellite communications company Inmarsat, where as CEO, he has been focusing on growing the business purpose and leading the way in the sector on carbon neutrality. During our conversation, Rajeev shares his key leadership lessons, including the importance of building belief, and how to ride the waves of change. I started by asking him to tell us a little bit more about Inmarsat. Rajeev Suri: The company's 40 years old, was founded by the United Nations to protect lives at sea. So safety at Sea is how the company started, and then we are also doing safety in the air. We've expanded a great deal over the decades. We're now a leader in global mobile connectivity, we connect assets that move. Whether they're on land at sea or in the air. Our primary customers are airlines, ships, governments, and internet of things users. So if you fly across an ocean, the chances are that the cockpit is connected through Inmarsat on an airline and also at sea. We connect so much of merchant marine providing safety. So over a million seafarers know that if their ship is in trouble, they can press a button and help will be on its way thanks to Inmarsat. So essentially we're a global satellite mobile connectivity company. Andrew White: So it's I you're not doing the emergency response, but you are a critical part of the emergency infrastructure, but also the management infrastructure of those assets that are in those global spaces. So in a sense, it's a key piece of infrastructure where you don't have local networks, and local landline infrastructures, and things like that. Rajeev Suri: Absolutely. If you have no terrestrial connectivity, the only way you're connect it through satellite. And that's why wifi provision in commercial airlines and in business aviation providing the same in ships. But also in a natural disaster, right? Inmarsat connectivity is available to coordinate rare efforts and reconnected separated families. We do that a fair bit. So our purpose is great providing safety, but also connecting for good. Andrew White: But also the purpose from what it sounds like was there from the beginning. Because if you were founded by the UN, has a global role coming out of global governance, you weren't a company that went through the 2008 financial crisis and then suddenly realized you had to wake up to some of these things. It sounds like it's been in there from the get-go. Rajeev Suri: Absolutely right. Yes. So when I came to Inmarsat, I asked three questions of all employees in a very short survey and I said, "What do you want me to change? What you want me to absolutely not change, and what advice would you give me?" And the one thing people did not want us to change is obviously the purpose, because it's so fantastic. We don't have to find one. That's how we found it. Andrew White: But what did they want you to change? What that's so curious as to the other questions and what should you do, I guess is you know, must have got some interesting suggestions back from that. Were there any common themes? Rajeev Suri: People wanted growth, because the company was not growing or was sort of let's say undershooting its potential for growth. And over the last two years we have been one of the top two fastest growing companies in the sector. And there are a lot of players in the sector. There are 55 communication providers providing satellite connectivity. And when you look at profitability, ie. EBITA, we've been the fastest growing EBITDA company for the last 12 months, and actually even before that. So the last couple of years have been very good, and I think people have embraced change. We reset the ambition, we increased the ambition, we did a few things right, and people took care of the rest. Andrew White: Yeah. So you're running a major company. This is a FTSE 100 on the UK market, so it's one of the biggest companies in the UK, but also has a huge global footprint by the nature of what you do. When you look back across the course of your life, have there been things that occurred to you, lessons that you learned, maybe the good and the bad, which are really shaping how you lead today? How you form priorities, how you make decisions, how you see the future? Rajeev Suri: I think very early on I learned through the lesson of doing the right thing. So I believe greatly in ethics and integrity. So when I joined Nokia, remember I'd already been working for seven years, and to sort of restart at an engineer level was a hard pill to swallow at the time, but my gut feel said that, "Nokia is going to be the right company for me, and I'm going to learn a lot."ing So I think that was the other thing. My career has always been about new experiences in learning new things. That's how I'm driven. It is about the potential to make an impact where there are at least three things that intersect, global and diversity, complexity, and technology. Sort of when those things intersect, I tend to thrive. It's really about specific experiences that have taught me the continued desire to learn. And I'd say two of those experiences were quite profound. When I became the CEO of Nokia Siemens Networks, the company was stumbling, basically it was a lag out of the sector, was a financially very risky undertaking. The company was under capitalized, there was deep change needed for company survival. I mean, we were on the verge of bankruptcy, our revenues were declining 21%. Can you imagine that if you do that for two years, then you've halved your revenue. The parents Nokia and Siemens that the company, the management team had a plan. And so job losses unfortunately were a must. Asset sales were a must, but the goal was to keep the company alive and preserve as many jobs as possible, and sort of get back to growth. And so we embarked on a solid and dramatic transformation. And the result was that we created an industry leader with a very strong profitability. We were punching way above our weight. The number one leader was two times our revenue, but we were making the same profit. So we moved from zero profit to about 1.5 billion euros of profit. And this is [inaudible 00:06:52] first operating profit, not EBITDA, so it's even stronger. And cash generation was solid. We were then hiring many people again and we were growing. So it was hard, but it was the right thing to do, and it taught me many things. And then after that, when the mobile phones business of Nokia on the other side of the fence was sold to Microsoft, I became CEO of all of Nokia. But now think about this, right? Nokia needed something different. It was traumatized by the failure of its mobile phone business, fractured, the board was worried still it was political. There was more conflict versus consensus. And so my approach was different. I wanted to create consensus wherever possible. I wanted to give considerable focus to ethics and integrity. I wanted personally to be accessible and responsive, empathetic, listen, engage and inspire people by charting a bold path forward. And so we went on to acquire Alcatel Lucent, we acquired Motorola's infrastructure business. If you go back to 2005, 2006, Nokia's Networks business, we were number six in the sector. Fast-forward to 2016, '17, we became number two in the sector, the leading western telecom infra company. We had moved from 6 billion Euro revenue to about 25 billion Euro revenue, our profitability at about 2.5 billion Euro revenue. And so we moved from a failed devices company to the leading western company in telecom infra. And we pretty much single-handedly consolidated the entire telecom infrastructure from about 10 players down to three scale players. So we acquired Nortel's business, Alcatel Lucent, Bell Labs, Motorola, Panasonic, and so it was just every couple of years. So this was a very bold ambition that we undertook. And it was successful in the end, and that was very satisfying. Andrew White: I mean, it sounds like a lot of this was about giving people something to believe in. I mean, just the way you're talking, you're on the back foot. Nobody wants to be in an organization on the back foot where revenues are falling at 21%. And then when you started talking about bringing all these businesses in, there's a sense that we're building something, there's a sense of a vision, not just in a theoretical level, but a vision that's being implemented, and we're part of something. Rajeev Suri: Yeah. Absolutely. And all I had was belief when I took over first October, 2009 as Siemens network CEO, I remember doing a leadership summit with about 75 top people and trying to translate that belief. And I remember on the first day, on the first October, 2009 when I took over, I did a media interview, whatever press conference, and I said that, "There'll be three scale players in the sector." I was laughed out because saying, wait a second, you're a dying number five right now. How are you going to be in business? Leave alone, be one of the top three. But we needed people to believe, and that needed to start with me that I believe, and then cascade that in all of the people then. And people did believe one of the good things Nokia was great at was constant change. It's 155 plus year old company and it started with paper, and then rubber boots, and then people talk about mobile phone success. But that was 20 years in a 100 year plus job. And so I think the ability of people to adapt to change is I think made us who Andrew White: We are. And also tapping into its DNA. So in its DNA was this ability to reinvent and so it knew how to do it. Sometimes it's just about remembering. Rajeev Suri: Exactly right. Yes. Andrew White: You talked about where you are now with Inmarsat, and again, it's about consolidation, it's about kind of building something. So a lot of these lessons must be really helpful in terms of what you're trying to do in this job. Rajeev Suri: It has been very helpful. Within Nokia, I did a number of jobs and so I did technology jobs, I've done running a business unit, I've run a global account, I've run sales and account management. I've done a strategy role at the global level. So once you are able to put yourself out of these comfort zones on a regular basis, you have to develop the ability to have greater learning agility. And so that's been very helpful, because I mean, space is more complex. It's different, it's been very useful to have that ability to learn, but also to create the adaptability for change. Culture was great here, but we just needed to strengthen accountability to raise the level of ambition. So if you look at the sector, the 55 satellite communication providers, a number of players have talked to each other about consolidation never happened. So when I came in, I said, "Wait a second. Something's got to give." I mean, we are lucky that we're in the growth part of the market, but most other players, I mean satellites are used for a number of things. You can provide video broadcast, you sort of predict whether you can provide consumers broadband service. So what we do, which is provide businesses and governments with the connectivity in far-flung remote places where there is no other form of connectivity. So we were luckily in the sweet spot of the market, but most players were not growing, including ourselves. And it was very clear to see from the outside that consolidation needs to happen. And so we became the first player to trigger that, because I believe that you can succeed in an industry when your neighborhood is good. So I mean, you need to reach structure to evolve and change. And now there are rumors that Intelsat, yes will do their possible merger as well. So you can see that we've triggered the same thing we did in the network infrastructure business, not for the sake of it, but we did think that the industry needed to get to a healthier place, because you have new billionaires coming into the industry with deep pockets like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos with their two constellations that are mega constellations. So we wanted to give ourselves the ability to get scope and scale. So in the first eight months I was negotiating multiple deals with potential dance partners or buyers. At the same time, we were preparing the health of the company and improving ourselves to grow our potential. Luckily, both have happened thanks to our people. We have grown at the high end of the market. The market grows at five or 6%, we grow at 9%, 10%. Our EBITDA grows faster than our revenue, because you want that to happen. And we've been free cash flow positive the last couple of years allowing us to deleverage. So it's been phenomenal. But at the same time, we've also upped our game in talking about things that matter to the industry, the decarbonization potential of satellites, and becoming focused on climate change ourselves. Whereas we are the only company in the sector that has agreed to net-zero targets by 2050 approved by the science-based target initiative. And I think the first company to recently have done a carbon-neutral launch. So I really also wanted for us to be thought leaders in the industry, where others understand what our contribution can be to society as a whole. Andrew White: Yeah. And that's why I was really going to ask you, given what's happening in the world today from one point of view, what happened in telecoms was a bit of a precursor. That level of wave after wave of intense change is now hitting industries which have been stable for 40 years, like oil and gas. In the sense so you built muscle memory in telecoms that you can bring to others. So when you look around at your peers in the FTSE 100 or in the global businesses that you are relating to, what do you see as being the skills that leaders need today, in terms of if you're going to run a large global company, what do you need in terms of leadership capability? Rajeev Suri: I think you need to create the constant ability for companies to learn. People are adaptable to change. They embrace it, they welcome it. Because I mean, there's going to be so much change. I think that's one. I think second, you need constant upskilling and you need a focus on purpose. I mean, we are lucky. We've had a good founding purpose, we've developed it, we have expanded on it. You don't get people to join you these days or to stay with you for long periods of time if you don't have a purpose that resonates with them. That is sort of above and beyond making just profits. And I think those are some of the important reasons. Learning company, adaptivity, change, focus on purpose, remember why you exist, or what impact you make to society, not just as a company but also as an industry. I do believe in the power of technology to provide productivity to industries and to improve the world, but only if you have an ability to constantly embrace it. Andrew White: And I guess it's like change is no longer episodic. It's not just every five years or 10 years. My sense is it's a continual process. And I think actually the word change or transformation, they're reaching their limits. We should be talking about being in a state of evolution. Rajeev Suri: Yeah. Andrew White: And I've interested to know the first zero carbon launch you did. You must have seen a lot of these things coming to bear in quite an intense way because it can't have been easy to get the carbon that you produce down to zero for an activity like that. Rajeev Suri: Yeah. Because for an activity like that, you do consume a lot of emission. You burn a lot, right? Andrew White: Yeah. Rajeev Suri: And so you have to offset them with a number of other initiatives that allow you to completely offset the carbon that's emitted. And so what we did was, it was a carbon-neutral event in accordance with the carbon-neutral protocol. And that is a leading global framework for carbon neutrality. And so we wanted to make sure that we're measured externally. The other thing we did is like I said, that we are the first satellite communications company in the world to commit to being net-zero by 2050. And again, this is scope one, scope two, scope three, and it's validated by the science-based targets initiative. So whatever we do, we want to be able to be able to validate and measure it. So that was fantastic, people felt great about it. And the other thing we worked on is that I commissioned a research report on, "What on earth is the value of space?" About last year. And we started to understand that, "What is the decarbonization potential of space technologies?" And it's sort of not well known that you know already the space industry does 22.5%, reduces 2.5% of global greenhouse gas emissions. And we studied three sectors, energy, transportation, agriculture, forestry, and other land use. So as we studied this, we said, "Okay. So we're already providing 2.5% reduction. What if we deployed these nascent technologies more widely? And sort of add in the mix some advanced technologies that are not yet available. The potential is not just 2.5%, it goes to about 18%." Andrew White: Wow. Okay. Rajeev Suri: So we said that, "That could be so massive that it could potentially even bring forward net-zero from 2050 to maybe 2045 or even 2040." So it is also our job as an industry to be able to build that awareness of what the potential of decarbonization is from our industry put together. So that was very revealing. Andrew White: So this is about taking technologies that you've developed in the space industry, and then applying them into other industries to bring about decarbonization? Rajeev Suri: So for instance, we have something called Iris that we are partnering with the European Space Agency to do. And what that does is that will allow you to modernize the air traffic management systems through these trajectory based operations that allow you to go for green roots. And so those green roots will allow you to optimize fuel. And if you deploy it around the world, you can get there by maybe 2040 or late 2030s in all countries of the world. So imagine the potential of that. So a number of things you can do already today, but also new technologies that are coming our way. Andrew White: I mean, I've often thought that 2050 seems a long way away. The scientists are telling us we need to get there sooner. And part of me thinks actually we need to be more ambitious, we need more innovation, but not just more innovation, we need that innovation deployed quicker. Because some of it, as you are saying, is already there. So it's not necessarily being more creative, although I think that's needed. But sometimes it's about pushing harder, being bolder. Rajeev Suri: Fully agree. It is about being bolder, it's applying what you already have more widely. These technologies can buy you time before you get to carbon capture technologies and other things you need to do down the line that needs more innovation, more creativity. So yes. I think it is about pushing harder what you have, becoming bold and advancing some of those new technologies and deploy it to other places more widely. And then invent new things that will help climate change. Andrew White: Yeah. And can I touch on something else? Because you talked about purpose and you talked about learning, and this is about people. And many of us start our careers, we learn some stuff, we then deploy it, our careers grow. But there's a sense we're having to perhaps, "Reinvent", might be a strong word, but we're having to learn a lot of new skills and there's a sense that learning becomes part of what we do in life. And in a sense, it's a muscle that's easily more easily flexed. Is that what you're seeing is that actually this is about human potential, and it's about deep listening, and this requires a different type of leadership approach, really? Rajeev Suri: Yes. It does. Yep. Yep. The organization requires a different kind of leadership approach. You are constantly upscaling your adding digital dexterity. Most high value work in the future will be cognitive in nature. Employees will have to apply creativity, critical thinking, constant digital upskilling to solve complex problems. So I think for me, what's going to be more and more important is encourage leadership at all levels. Sort of decentralize more, distribute sort of more empowerment in the organization. People closest to the decision should be able to make those decisions. That's some of the things we try to do here at Inmarsat. Just, "Why are so many things to the top? Why don't we just push it down and delegate morely and decentralized more effectively?" It doesn't mean in an organizational sense, it means in an ability to make decision sense. So I think encourage leadership to all levels going to be important. This upskilling, I think developing a company where people almost choose in net next jobs based on learning, not about money or sort of going up the ladder necessarily, or the traditional metrics that people have applied. Obviously some of those things are important too, but imagine if learning's number one, and this is not being altruistic, this is just about becoming a learning organization, passion and purpose, right? I think people do not just work for money, employees want to make a meaningful social impact. And I think people will actively seek opportunity to tie the impact and value of their work to the mission, purpose, and passion of the company. I joined in 2018, I joined the board of Stryker, which is a medical technology company in the US and it's a mission to be involved in healthcare. I'd always said, "If I'm going to join an external board, I'd love it to be in healthcare." When that came my way I was like, "What a gift." And I remember interviewing with the CEO and the chairman and he said, "Why do you want to join us?" I said, "What's not to like? Look at your mission", and when we talked about the values of the company, I got even more inspired and it's been a wonderful journey over the last five years. So I think this also rings true with what we do at Inmarsat. So when we have been talking about thought leadership, things like decarbonizing a number of sectors, taking the high road on issues such as space sustainability. I've said that to have net-zero on earth, you need to have net-zero in space because the other thing to be important is that space has a finite orbital carrying capacity. And now if you go back to the consolidation comment I made earlier, there are so many mega constellations coming very close to earth in low earth orbit, and they're going to create a number of risks. Orbital exclusion, that there'll be so many thousand satellites in just one orbit that nobody else can come into that orbit. So if you're a country or a company that wants to come into that orbit, you're excluded. The second is space debris and collision avoidance and risks to space, astronomy, light pollution, soil aluminum being burnt in the earth's upper atmosphere means creates climate change issues again back down here. And so I'm asking for not just a code of conduct as to how the industry does business, but perhaps even regulation, because I think we've all observed that when it came to climate change, self-discipline didn't get us there, you need something great and stronger. And so we've taken a very strong position in the matter of space sustainability for all. Andrew White: And you can see it with the inefficiency around the rollout of mobile telephone masks and the networks. And it required governments in some cases to step in and say in emergency situations, "If I'm on one network, then my phone should be able to roam onto another network without any problems." And these networks are common goods. And I think what you're saying is to an extent, you've got to have the private sector in there, but the networks also have a common good to them. Yes, particularly if you're in a ship at sea and you press the red button on the radio, because you're have a fire or a flood or something else on board, the competition between providers shouldn't really play out at that point. Rajeev Suri: You said it well. Andrew White: So thank you. We've covered a lot of ground. I'd like to finish with seven questions that I use with all the guests. And the first one is, "Which leader from history inspires you most?" Rajeev Suri: One of my favorite quotes is from the Nobel laureate Bob Dylan, now 81 years old, I think. I like what he said about, "You should always take the best from the past, leave the worst back there and go forward into the future." Why does this resonate with me? Because I think it's suggested tolerance for failure. And I'm a firm believer that every company should have a tolerance for failure. You should celebrate and learn through your mistakes, because if you're not failing, you can't develop a fail fast culture. Experiment, make mistakes and then move on, learn from them. Andrew White: Thank you. And which leader today inspires you most? Rajeev Suri: I'm not sure there's one leader, Andrew. I think it's something from each. I like what Microsoft CEO Satya has been able to do with reinventing Microsoft. I like what Amazon did, what Jeff Bezos did with sort of the day one culture and staying with this constant innovation in the multiple areas over time, and using something that was developed for internal use Amazon Web Services to make it a sort of thriving business. So it depends. There are some leadership attributes from different leaders I've been energized by. Andrew White: Thank you. And which book has made the most impact on you? Rajeev Suri: From a leadership point of view, I'd say that good to great from Jim Collins made quite an impact and especially that [inaudible 00:26:06] about level five leadership, and how level five is different from level four, and humility and how one must be grounded. Andrew White: Yeah. I love that, his paper in Harvard Business Review, which I think is a couple of decades old now. I think he put his finger on something which a lot earlier than, and in a sense the idea matured to a point where people realized it, particularly after 2008, that it was about fierce ambition but also profound humility. And it was the combination of the two, which is so important. No. I couldn't agree. War with you. And when you're promoting people, what characteristic do you look for? Rajeev Suri: Curiosity. Those who are engaged, they have an ability to ask the right questions. They're willing to learn, and they develop a knack of asking, searching questions. And searching questions gets you collectively to the right answers. Andrew White: And what inspires you in the younger generation? Rajeev Suri: I think three things. Their ability to take risks, potential ability to dream big. Their ability to adapt and welcome change, but also that they are natively more open to diversity and inclusion. Andrew White: And what makes you hopeful about the future? Rajeev Suri: The potential and power of technology, I'm passionate about creating value, innovation, delivering technologies that have a positive impact on people's lives. When I was in my previous job at Nokia, I thought 5G would make a profound impact on nations and the industrial sector by helping provide new forms of productivity. And whether or not there'll be new consumer applications, we'll see about that. That may take time with virtual reality and other things. But I've talked about what we can do in the space sector, and that's been very interesting, especially with regard to decarbonization. Andrew White: And finally, it can't be easy running a company with the size and scale your operations are on 24 hours a day, seven days a week across the world. So where do you go for inspiration, for renewal to kind of recharge the batteries? Rajeev Suri: I think that having this balance in your work and life is very important. Yeah. I'm a firm believer that you've got to be passionate about work, and I am and always will be, but not the exclusion of the fullness of a life well lived. So I want to socialize. I want to have quality time with friends and family. I want to do things that I enjoy. Family is very important to me. I love spending time with my family. We're all in London. Our three dogs love to spend time with them. My two sons, my wife and I tend to take regular holidays during [inaudible 00:28:30], but sort of regular. And then fitness is a very important part of my life. About an hour and a half gym session every day, I will make it a point to walk about 10 kilometers, and preferably if it's close to nature. Andrew White: My thanks to Rajeev Suri. My name is Andrew White and you've been listening to Leadership 2050. Don't forget, you can find all our previous episodes wherever you get your podcasts. And please do take a moment to rate and review us. If you'd like to hear more from Saïd Business School, exploring leadership, and how the business world is re-imagining the future, please visit Oxfordanswers.org. Leadership 2050 is produced by Eve Streeter. Original music is by [inaudible 00:29:17]. Our executive producer is David McGuire for Stable Productions. In the next episode, I'll be joined by Daniel Hooft, the CEO of Kelp Blue, a blue water farming company that is changing the world of the oceans. Until then, many thanks for listening.