0:00:06.640,0:00:15.360
hello everyone i am dr bridget custon greetings 
from oxford uh i'm an anthropologist here at

0:00:15.360,0:00:21.440
the syed business school at the university 
of oxford and it is my distinct honor to to

0:00:21.440,0:00:26.240
be the host of this incredible session 
that we have lined up for you which is

0:00:26.240,0:00:33.920
part three of our series intersectionality 
and inclusion now as an anthropologist

0:00:33.920,0:00:40.320
i examined the complexity of humans and how 
human complexity then inevitably goes on to shape

0:00:40.320,0:00:47.440
the institutions communities businesses that 
humans go on to build and intersectionality is

0:00:47.440,0:00:53.600
a rich topic for us to explore here at a business 
school because it does not simply mean that we all

0:00:53.600,0:01:01.280
have multiple facets to our identities we all 
do have intersecting elements to who we are but

0:01:01.280,0:01:05.920
intersectionality actually has a very specific 
genealogy and that's part of what we're going to

0:01:05.920,0:01:11.760
parse today so when the lawyer and the legal 
scholar kimberly crenshaw coined the word

0:01:11.760,0:01:18.560
intersectionality it wasn't on instagram it wasn't 
on twitter it wasn't a hot take it was actually to

0:01:18.560,0:01:25.040
respond to the fact that when some individuals 
have multiple facets to their identity so in dr

0:01:25.040,0:01:30.160
crenshaw's case she was discussing black women 
in the context of domestic violence and the law

0:01:31.040,0:01:39.200
some of those overlapping identities mean that 
people cannot be fully seen or fully received

0:01:39.200,0:01:44.640
by the world around them now we're bringing you 
this series from the open executive education

0:01:44.640,0:01:49.760
program at the site business school because 
any challenge in society is also a challenge

0:01:49.760,0:01:54.960
for business and for business leaders and when 
it comes to intersectionality and this question

0:01:54.960,0:01:59.760
of who can be fully seen who can be 
fully received by the world around them

0:01:59.760,0:02:05.200
this is a question for authentic leadership how 
can authentic leadership be possible when certain

0:02:05.200,0:02:12.000
aspects of ourselves might not be fully expressed 
or even seen now this concept of visibility was

0:02:12.000,0:02:17.280
the subject of part one in this series where 
we examined autism where we examined the skin

0:02:17.280,0:02:24.080
condition of albinism and pathways to visibility 
which was a session led by dr zainab kaba

0:02:24.080,0:02:29.360
spoke with those at sesame workshop the creators 
of the children's show sesame street who were on

0:02:29.360,0:02:34.880
the path toward creating a character with albinism 
to build awareness from the grassroots up so the

0:02:34.880,0:02:40.160
question there was how do we build a movement 
really from the ground up by educating children

0:02:40.160,0:02:45.520
the second episode of this series and all of this 
by the way is available on the youtube channel

0:02:45.520,0:02:51.040
for the site business school or on the web page 
for this series intersectionality and inclusion

0:02:51.600,0:02:57.040
the second episode examined women entrepreneurs 
and how they built inclusivity and managed to

0:02:57.040,0:03:03.520
tackle world-scale challenges through allies 
through supportive communities and what that took

0:03:03.520,0:03:08.960
and now in this episode we return to the 
topic of the skin condition of albinism

0:03:10.000,0:03:16.080
looking at strength beyond all odds female 
leaders who defy the odds we're continuing our

0:03:16.080,0:03:22.240
discussion about what it takes to build durable 
inclusive inclusivity and durable visibility

0:03:22.240,0:03:27.280
from the ground up especially for populations 
who might not have been able to fully express

0:03:27.280,0:03:34.320
all facets of themselves or be fully received 
for all of their human richness and complexity so

0:03:34.880,0:03:42.960
with that let me give the panelists a chance to 
introduce themselves we will start with carol uh

0:03:42.960,0:03:50.320
hello my name is carol prendergast i'm an attorney 
and i have been a human rights advocate for

0:03:51.440,0:03:55.920
over 40 years i've worked on various 
human rights and humanitarian issues

0:03:56.560,0:04:08.480
primarily working with victims of torture refugees 
other victims migration um and working primarily

0:04:08.480,0:04:17.120
within the context of international ngos in the 
last couple of years i have begun working as a

0:04:18.560,0:04:24.400
an advisor to the new york dermatology group 
foundation on their project on albinism the

0:04:24.400,0:04:31.360
colorful campaign and helping to develop their 
partnership with the un high commission for human

0:04:31.360,0:04:38.480
rights and with sesame street and i'm very 
happy to be here and to be included in this

0:04:39.040,0:04:43.200
very nice group of people and 
carol you're joining us from

0:04:44.640,0:04:50.880
i'm joining from new york from new york that's 
right thank you uh next let's hear from ik

0:04:52.560,0:05:00.480
thanks bridget hello everyone my name is ik full 
name is ikma osa and i am originally from nigeria

0:05:00.480,0:05:06.320
immigrated to canada as a child with my family 
still in canada happy canada day to anyone who

0:05:06.320,0:05:12.640
is canadian this is our july 1st celebration 
i currently serve at the united nations

0:05:12.640,0:05:18.640
office of the high commissioner for human 
rights as their independent expert on albinism

0:05:19.200,0:05:26.080
and i am currently joining you from vancouver 
it's a pleasure to be here thanks brilliant thank

0:05:26.080,0:05:33.520
you ik and last but not least julie hello 
i'm julie ebbing i'm a model but i'm also

0:05:33.520,0:05:42.080
a sporter i have done a lot of interviews 
on the subject of albinism for example with

0:05:42.720,0:05:51.840
the bbc with the article truly ebbing the model 
the abandoned child who became a folk model

0:05:53.120,0:06:03.760
and thank you for thank you very much that i'm 
part of this exciting group with special people

0:06:05.600,0:06:10.720
well it's our pleasure to have you and 
this panel to me is an exciting one because

0:06:10.720,0:06:18.480
it is what so many panels are not first of all 
it's all female uh it is multinational and it is

0:06:18.480,0:06:25.120
intergenerational and we we have i suppose uh 
three to four generations represented on this

0:06:25.120,0:06:31.920
panel and when it comes to building durable 
change it's a generational process and so i

0:06:31.920,0:06:38.720
invite all of you to reflect on your vantage 
points onto the topic as uh as individuals

0:06:38.720,0:06:44.640
who have such varied life experiences um so 
with that let's get into our first question

0:06:44.640,0:06:50.960
question which is an intersectional approach 
to inclusivity allows people to choose who that

0:06:50.960,0:06:56.480
how they identify and we've already heard a bit 
about this in your introductions to yourselves but

0:06:56.480,0:07:04.080
let's go into this a bit deeper uh ik carol 
shuli how do you choose to identify and why

0:07:06.880,0:07:12.880
sure so um for me i identify first 
and foremost as an african black woman

0:07:13.600,0:07:19.120
and whenever i say that publicly people chuckle 
especially when they don't understand that i have

0:07:19.120,0:07:24.320
albinism so i say hey i'm a black woman don't 
mess with me and they laugh but i am and when

0:07:24.320,0:07:30.560
i check off my senseless forms i check off black 
and then in the space for other i write albinism

0:07:31.200,0:07:36.880
because i think they can coexist and together 
they define who i am and how people relate to me

0:07:37.760,0:07:43.760
i also identify as a person with a disability 
because albinism not only gives you a different

0:07:43.760,0:07:51.200
appearance it also impacts your vision so most of 
us have low vision finally i identify as someone

0:07:51.200,0:07:57.440
a racialized group so a person or a part of 
a group facing racial discrimination because

0:07:57.440,0:08:03.040
that's the discrimination also based on color 
which is not necessarily something that has to

0:08:03.040,0:08:08.240
always be linked to race uh to be found so the 
in a nutshell that's how i define myself thanks

0:08:11.680,0:08:17.920
and that answer in and of itself to me reveals 
the impoverished nature of corporate responses

0:08:17.920,0:08:24.240
to diversity equity and inclusion that focus 
on a singular characteristic as being what

0:08:24.240,0:08:30.080
they might try to to support when your own 
self-narrative shows the centrality of these

0:08:30.080,0:08:35.920
overlapping forms of of identification carol 
shuli how do you choose to identify and why

0:08:38.480,0:08:47.040
well i think uh like ik and all of us i feel that 
i have multiple identities interestingly enough

0:08:47.040,0:08:54.880
and this might well be a generational issue i did 
not strongly identify as a person with albinism

0:08:54.880,0:09:01.680
until i really became involved in working on 
this issue i was aware that people with albinism

0:09:01.680,0:09:07.760
suffered some terrible human rights abuses 
throughout the world but i i i saw that through

0:09:07.760,0:09:15.200
the lens of being a human rights attorney a human 
rights advocate i think that i identified more as

0:09:15.200,0:09:22.640
a person with disabilities because i am legally 
blind and that was the main challenge for me

0:09:24.880,0:09:30.800
uh growing up to overcome that and 
of course i identify as a woman um

0:09:31.360,0:09:36.480
but i think that fundamentally i've become 
more in touch with my identity as a person

0:09:36.480,0:09:42.400
with albinism and it it is interesting to see how 
it can emerge at different points in your life

0:09:42.400,0:09:48.400
because i literally obviously knew i had albinism 
but it was not really integrated into my own view

0:09:48.400,0:09:55.680
of myself until the last couple of years and i was 
doing this work and i would just say that my lead

0:09:55.680,0:10:03.840
identity which they never ask you on any form 
is that i identify as a humanist because i just

0:10:03.840,0:10:11.360
deeply believe that everyone should be seen for 
who they are and respected and given the dignity

0:10:11.360,0:10:16.720
that they deserve not only by governments 
and institutions but by all of us between

0:10:16.720,0:10:24.320
ourselves so if i were just picking one thing i 
would say that i am most prominently a humanist

0:10:27.920,0:10:33.200
thank you for that again another answer that 
just completely defies and flies in the face of

0:10:33.840,0:10:39.200
you know corporate logics that might assume that 
identity is fixed right and that people's primary

0:10:39.760,0:10:45.840
identification is a thing and once they've named 
it they've done their work uh surely what you

0:10:47.840,0:10:55.440
there are different parts in my life that define 
me i'm for example a female i was born in china

0:10:56.480,0:11:03.760
and i have albinism but also i define 
myself as a human but i really do not know

0:11:04.400,0:11:11.440
what defines me because i'm very young and 
i'm still experiencing uh things that give me

0:11:12.320,0:11:16.240
different opinions about 
different parts in my own life

0:11:19.440,0:11:20.320
well that sounds like

0:11:23.840,0:11:27.840
sorry say that one more time i'm afraid 
i might have accidentally spoken over you

0:11:29.200,0:11:37.520
i'm also adopted so that brings other issues with 
uh being adopted brings other issues with this

0:11:38.480,0:11:44.240
thing but first and foremost i'm 
a human being and i'm here to

0:11:44.880,0:11:51.440
explain what's albinism and how people 
can help me or other people with albinism

0:11:53.360,0:11:59.200
well we were saying before this webcast started 
julie that you might be the youngest presenter

0:11:59.200,0:12:05.600
uh in in the history of the business school at in 
one of our events so uh for someone who who is so

0:12:05.600,0:12:11.040
young you certainly have a tremendous amount of 
self-awareness and and we can all learn from you

0:12:12.560,0:12:18.720
ik given the complexity of identity that 
has been just sketched out right now and

0:12:18.720,0:12:23.840
from your vantage point as a seasoned 
campaigner for albinism awareness how

0:12:23.840,0:12:30.080
do we move beyond tokenism to genuine inclusion 
and how can companies even know the difference

0:12:31.920,0:12:38.080
yeah this is an interesting question because i 
think i see a lot of criticism about tokenism

0:12:38.080,0:12:44.800
online and tokenism being defined as some kind of 
perfunctory or symbolic gesture that has no depth

0:12:45.520,0:12:51.120
i take a slightly different view i think tokenism 
is the beginning of real change on this issue

0:12:51.680,0:12:58.160
because sometimes the awkwardness of what to do is 
not always clear to businesses or to organizations

0:12:58.160,0:13:03.360
and so you have to kind of be forgiven one of the 
biggest things i've learned in the last six years

0:13:03.360,0:13:09.200
on the mandate and i come to a close in 30 days is 
uh forgiveness is a big part of the expectations

0:13:09.200,0:13:14.800
for change so the company has to be forgiven to 
themselves but other people has to be forgiven

0:13:14.800,0:13:21.040
have to be forgiven to the company and allow them 
to persist so two things um to get over tokenism

0:13:21.040,0:13:27.440
is to do more of it yeah so first of all invade 
your organization with the people you want to see

0:13:27.440,0:13:34.080
you want to include so replicate the tokenism and 
over time it will take root as something beyond

0:13:34.080,0:13:39.280
tokenism and how do you facilitate that then 
this is the second thing to do is to encourage

0:13:39.280,0:13:45.440
storytelling um listening and also making sure 
that these people have a platform of course

0:13:45.440,0:13:50.480
in a way that is integrated with the the vision 
of the business so that everything is um is one

0:13:50.480,0:13:55.760
integral whole and not like you know one thing 
taking over the other so this takes some kind of

0:13:55.760,0:14:02.560
um somebody orchestrating like a choir a conductor 
of a choir so to speak so i think business is is

0:14:02.560,0:14:09.760
a science but in this sense it's also an art 
and and using tokenism first as this as a form

0:14:09.760,0:14:14.000
and then over time it will become substantive 
if you do more of it and you let it grow

0:14:16.000,0:14:22.640
spoken spoken like the person you are which is 
someone who has in the trenches on this issue

0:14:22.640,0:14:30.640
for long enough to to understand what it takes to 
enact change um carol ik we're a business school

0:14:31.280,0:14:36.560
current and future business leaders are tuning 
into this event what's the message for these

0:14:36.560,0:14:43.120
business leaders what work does business have to 
do beyond what you just said about tokenism and

0:14:43.120,0:14:49.040
how that is the end of change what is the role 
of business when you consider albinism rights

0:14:50.000,0:14:54.160
moving beyond that carol in your case 
your work on human rights more generally

0:14:54.160,0:14:59.680
what's the role of business in all this 
well i think that business just like the

0:14:59.680,0:15:08.000
public sector the ngo sector uh business plays 
a very important role and i think that when we

0:15:08.000,0:15:14.320
think about business we tend to think about 
multinational brands and huge corporations

0:15:14.960,0:15:23.360
and i think ik began to speak to that and can 
probably say much more than that than i can but

0:15:23.360,0:15:29.520
i'd like to also point to the fact that business 
encompasses a lot of different things for example

0:15:30.240,0:15:40.320
you have financial organizations so microfinancing 
is now a very established thing which helps

0:15:40.320,0:15:46.800
to include marginalized populations i would 
say to current and future business people

0:15:47.360,0:15:54.160
if you are in the micro credit financing industry 
or any part of the finance industry you need to be

0:15:54.160,0:16:01.920
proactive about finding who are the groups and the 
people who are not in your portfolio who are not

0:16:01.920,0:16:09.200
the people who maybe know what you do or what you 
can do to support their efforts and their efforts

0:16:09.200,0:16:16.160
to be sustaining and self-supporting 
i would say the same thing to social

0:16:16.160,0:16:23.360
impact investors another emerging or well it has 
emerged now was emerging a number of years ago

0:16:23.360,0:16:28.880
and it's really taken root now well there 
are social impact funds addressing issues

0:16:28.880,0:16:36.320
like climate and so on but there are very very few 
that address for example people with disabilities

0:16:37.840,0:16:44.320
i would urge more people to consider forming 
those funds which can help to finance the

0:16:44.320,0:16:52.560
individual issue the individual work of people 
with disabilities um and i would also urge

0:16:52.560,0:17:03.280
investors to look to see to to really demand 
of um of companies to enlarge their portfolios

0:17:03.280,0:17:12.080
to to to express really to be proactive consumers 
and investors and say we want to be a part of

0:17:12.080,0:17:19.120
creating social change and i think that has begun 
but i think we have a lot further to go and we

0:17:19.120,0:17:26.000
should never underestimate the ability of anybody 
even if they are discriminated against poor

0:17:26.800,0:17:33.280
disabled marginalized in any way we should 
never underestimate the power of people to

0:17:34.000,0:17:39.520
given the opportunity and given the resources 
to create a life of dignity for themselves

0:17:39.520,0:17:46.720
and that's what i think most people want and 
carol i assume you bring this view to the

0:17:47.520,0:17:56.080
to the um the entrepreneurial fund that you sit 
on the board of alpha capital and is this view

0:17:56.080,0:18:00.720
received well what kind of pushback do you 
get and how do you how do you respond to it

0:18:03.360,0:18:09.680
well alphania is actually the first venture 
philanthropy group in the middle east so what

0:18:09.680,0:18:19.120
we do is we invest in social entrepreneurs for 
five years and we give them seed money the next

0:18:19.120,0:18:26.800
step and we also provide technical assistance and 
so on and it's just inspiring what people can do

0:18:26.800,0:18:33.120
given the opportunity and given the resources 
so i have learned a lot through that experience

0:18:34.000,0:18:40.240
after an organization or a person has shown 
themselves to be sustainable after five years

0:18:40.880,0:18:48.080
we at alphania exit but then often there is 
a space for a social impact investor or an

0:18:48.080,0:18:55.520
investor fund to come in to provide low uh 
low interest loans to them so that's i want

0:18:55.520,0:18:59.920
to add one other thing since you've given me 
this opportunity to talk about philanthropy

0:19:00.720,0:19:08.400
um corporations also need to think seriously 
about their corporate philanthropy and

0:19:09.280,0:19:17.840
health and education are two very broad areas 
that many corporations support and i think that

0:19:17.840,0:19:26.640
albinism can't be viewed as a niche issue as an 
as um as a disability or a condition that impacts

0:19:26.640,0:19:35.600
on a small number of people it really needs to be 
embodied in broader issues of health and education

0:19:36.560,0:19:44.800
and for example pharmaceutical companies who 
make sunscreen should be particularly concerned

0:19:44.800,0:19:52.800
about supporting groups uh working on albinism 
issues people who do tech uh technological work

0:19:52.800,0:19:58.960
for vision impaired people these are kind of 
natural connections with their message and um

0:19:59.600,0:20:04.240
and groups and organizations corporations 
that are interested in education

0:20:04.240,0:20:11.120
obviously should be looking at sesame's albinism 
initiative and be open to supporting that so i

0:20:11.120,0:20:18.560
think corporate philanthropy also has a very big 
role to play excellent thank you ik what would be

0:20:18.560,0:20:23.440
your message for business leaders who are tuning 
in what work does business have to do what's the

0:20:23.440,0:20:30.560
role of business and all this well i don't think 
i have to say but maybe it's worth noting that

0:20:30.560,0:20:38.240
businesses are shifting from the very strict sense 
of who they once were in the last few decades to

0:20:38.240,0:20:45.280
more of an area that not just the transformational 
approach where um the audience or let's say the

0:20:45.280,0:20:51.920
public is looking for businesses that have not 
only a mind but a heart and so the personhood

0:20:51.920,0:20:56.560
that we call business in the legal sense they 
are looking for more of a dynamic version of that

0:20:56.560,0:21:03.280
as opposed to a mere skeletal cold legal entity 
so i think it's in this context that i support

0:21:03.280,0:21:09.360
everything carol just said and just to underscore 
and to add a little bit that that businesses

0:21:09.360,0:21:15.520
have to therefore in this their transformational 
approach do not wait for people with disabilities

0:21:15.520,0:21:21.360
people with albinism minority racialized groups 
to approach them but to budget for that to budget

0:21:21.360,0:21:27.920
for accommodation for people with disabilities 
and then ask the human resources to proactively

0:21:27.920,0:21:35.680
seek out these people for instance here in canada 
that is the the blind institute that has a program

0:21:35.680,0:21:41.280
where they're looking for corporations who 
are able to hire people with low vision i was

0:21:41.280,0:21:47.200
a beneficiary of this program decades ago and i 
worked with the royal bank of canada as a result

0:21:47.200,0:21:54.320
only because the royal bank of canada told the 
blind institute that we are willing to hire x type

0:21:54.320,0:21:59.600
of person and so this kind of engagement between 
the corporation and the people group is important

0:21:59.600,0:22:05.600
for mutual listening but also to craft a position 
within your organization that you truly need

0:22:05.600,0:22:10.400
not a position that you're using to be it their 
token but a position that someone could really

0:22:10.400,0:22:16.400
deliver their skills to you i also finally 
wanted to say that um businesses can decode

0:22:17.280,0:22:23.120
the um change the attitudes yeah of people at 
their workplace there's a lot of initiatives

0:22:23.120,0:22:31.360
to decolonize de-racialize but there should be 
also d um clean the minds of your staff when it

0:22:31.360,0:22:37.680
comes to disabilities and have training on that 
and then be courageous after all the first model

0:22:37.680,0:22:43.360
with albinism and that is very well known who 
you might have seen d'andra forest in the united

0:22:43.360,0:22:48.400
states somebody took a risk to hire her when 
everyone else thought the rest of us were odd

0:22:48.400,0:22:54.240
and nothing to show on the walkways someone said 
this is someone i want to try i'm going to reach

0:22:54.240,0:23:00.160
out i'm going to be courageous so it takes courage 
it takes proactiveness it takes some budgeting

0:23:00.160,0:23:05.600
and it takes mutual listening and you'll begin 
to begin to transform society for many people

0:23:07.600,0:23:13.120
well you have just done what so many business 
leaders ask for which is you know what you want us

0:23:13.120,0:23:19.200
to do what is the thing that we can do and i think 
you've just laid down the gauntlet which is create

0:23:19.200,0:23:25.840
real jobs not jobs to tick a box and reach out 
before your marketing team comes to you and says

0:23:25.840,0:23:31.920
oh this is what we need to do to look a certain 
way reach out first i think that's an excellent

0:23:31.920,0:23:37.600
challenge and we're going to be watching the world 
is going to be watching to see who takes it up

0:23:38.960,0:23:46.320
um shuli as a young person still navigating 
what it means to now have the public platform

0:23:46.320,0:23:51.600
that you have and for those of you who don't 
know if you google shuli you will see her vogue

0:23:51.600,0:23:58.720
magazine editorial and it's absolutely stunning 
but it now has given you this public platform

0:23:59.680,0:24:04.800
now that you're navigating this what would 
you say is the most important priority when

0:24:04.800,0:24:09.760
it comes to albinism from your point of view 
it's one thing for a business school to say

0:24:09.760,0:24:14.480
this is the topic that matters this is what we 
need to do but this is your lived experience

0:24:15.280,0:24:19.840
and so your voice matters most of all what 
is the priority from your point of view

0:24:21.920,0:24:30.960
i think that the important thing to do is to learn 
people that albinism is in genetic condition and

0:24:30.960,0:24:40.480
it's not some curse so keep uh educating people 
about um from this subject about the subject

0:24:43.680,0:24:51.200
and look for the same rights that that 
people with albinism have the same rights and

0:24:52.880,0:24:56.400
that people with albinism are not judged by color

0:24:56.400,0:25:02.720
or by that they have a handicap but by who they 
are and what they can do what their abilities are

0:25:06.640,0:25:14.080
and this was exactly what d'andra forest so 
the the world's first model with albinism uh

0:25:14.080,0:25:18.640
who ik just referenced she said the same 
thing which was you have to do your research

0:25:19.200,0:25:24.720
right there is no shortcut it takes time it 
takes the humility of being willing to learn

0:25:25.840,0:25:30.560
for those of you who who don't know we 
recorded a short interview with deandra forest

0:25:30.560,0:25:37.280
before this webcast you can find it on the youtube 
page for oxford syed business school where deandra

0:25:37.280,0:25:44.400
reflects on issues relating to identity and her 
journey as an advocate for albinism awareness

0:25:44.400,0:25:50.480
and also before we get to the last question please 
type your own questions into the box we're going

0:25:50.480,0:25:57.920
to get to audience q a in just a moment so send 
through your questions for carol for ik for shuli

0:25:58.960,0:26:07.040
now ik and carol you are both highly experienced 
in working in politicized environments navigating

0:26:07.040,0:26:13.680
different policies different governments different 
religious beliefs why discuss albinism rights in

0:26:13.680,0:26:18.800
a global context when challenges in 
different nations can be so specific

0:26:21.680,0:26:30.960
thanks for the question i believe that even though 
the we have such a wide spectrum of discrimination

0:26:30.960,0:26:36.800
first faced by persons with albinism worldwide we 
do share some similarities that one of the biggest

0:26:36.800,0:26:44.080
being attitudinal barriers attitudes towards 
people with albinism has been very disturbing in

0:26:44.080,0:26:49.360
almost every country in the world of course on the 
extreme end are the countries where people with

0:26:49.360,0:26:55.360
albinism are viewed as material for which doctors 
and then so-called witch doctors and then they are

0:26:55.360,0:27:02.480
attacked killed mutilated with hundreds of cases 
reported to date on the other end of the spectrum

0:27:02.480,0:27:09.200
you have the attitudinal barriers that are 
more about um dehumanizing people with albinism

0:27:09.200,0:27:15.840
you see how we are portrayed in films da vinci 
code princess bride or even in books and most

0:27:15.840,0:27:20.960
people know more about us from literature than 
anything else which often translates into very

0:27:20.960,0:27:26.080
difficult bullying for people students with 
albinism parents withdrawing their children

0:27:26.080,0:27:32.800
as a result to do homeschooling in many cases so 
i believe the attitudinal barriers run through

0:27:32.800,0:27:38.800
even though the severity varies and human 
rights gives us this platform to be able to

0:27:38.800,0:27:45.680
counter attitudinal barriers while also adhering 
to universal principles standards that every

0:27:45.680,0:27:52.000
country is bound by the universal declaration of 
human rights also allows us to hold government

0:27:52.000,0:27:58.400
accountable to do their job to protect people 
with albinism and also human rights is empowering

0:27:58.400,0:28:03.760
language is language that doesn't only subject 
us to the medical approach when you see doctors

0:28:03.760,0:28:09.120
putting photos of us in books and talking about 
the patient is x or the patient is why and you

0:28:09.120,0:28:14.480
see the silent patient in the textbook with their 
faces blurred and all that human rights gives us

0:28:14.480,0:28:20.400
dignified languages to talk about ourselves such 
as through intersectionality and it gives other

0:28:20.400,0:28:26.720
people language to refer to us so that there's 
a mutual respect mutual dignity so the global

0:28:26.720,0:28:33.360
approach was the human rights approach for us 
from my point of view and also for solidarity the

0:28:33.360,0:28:39.440
global approach really gave us this avenue to live 
by that proverb that you know if you want to go

0:28:39.440,0:28:46.800
fast go alone if you want to go far go with people 
so going global was our way of achieving that

0:28:48.800,0:28:52.800
and in fact in the in the planning for 
this call it was wonderful to realize that

0:28:54.160,0:28:59.600
many of you already knew each other on this 
panel knew deandra the community is active

0:28:59.600,0:29:05.520
it seems incredibly supportive carol let's 
hear from you why discuss albinism rights

0:29:05.520,0:29:11.840
in a global context despite the deep national 
regional specificity of issues that can be faced

0:29:13.120,0:29:21.280
well i would just like to agree with absolutely 
everything that ik has just said as as as i almost

0:29:21.280,0:29:29.920
always do um but i would also add that it is 
very different in different places and different

0:29:29.920,0:29:38.080
cultures i think for me for example one of the 
reasons why i did not identify more strongly as

0:29:38.080,0:29:47.840
a person with albinism is because i was fortunate 
enough to be growing up in new york city to have

0:29:47.840,0:29:58.480
access to private education to have to not feel 
discriminated against for having albinism i may or

0:29:58.480,0:30:04.480
may not i'll never know have been discriminated 
against because of being legally blind

0:30:06.000,0:30:13.440
but it was nothing like the experience that 
other people have had throughout the world but i

0:30:13.440,0:30:19.440
think that in addition to what we all 
have in common in terms of our right

0:30:20.160,0:30:28.240
to be treated with dignity and in adherence to the 
convention for human rights i would also say that

0:30:28.240,0:30:38.320
the local groups there are to our knowledge there 
are over 200 local groups of people with albinism

0:30:38.320,0:30:45.920
or whose families have a family member with 
albinism who are active throughout the world and

0:30:45.920,0:30:54.160
ik during her mandate has done a lot in helping to 
identify these groups now they know what they need

0:30:54.960,0:31:03.360
they know what they need but having a global 
approach having a un mandate having the office for

0:31:03.360,0:31:11.360
the high commissioner of human rights addressing 
albinism as a human rights issue gives them a much

0:31:11.360,0:31:17.840
more elevated platform gives them a space gives 
them language and also provides an opportunity

0:31:18.880,0:31:26.160
for sharing experiences across countries 
there have been alliances built across africa

0:31:26.160,0:31:32.720
there's a global alliance that is in the early 
stages of building where all these local groups

0:31:32.720,0:31:39.440
can come together can work to support one 
another and learn from one another and i

0:31:39.440,0:31:45.840
think if we had not approached this as a global 
human rights issue people would all be working

0:31:46.800,0:31:54.240
by themselves trying to figure it out but not 
feeling that communal support and they'll figure

0:31:54.240,0:32:01.120
out what needs to be done in their state in their 
country in their situation they know how to how to

0:32:01.120,0:32:07.840
implement that but we're helping to provide 
support by promoting this as a global issue

0:32:10.400,0:32:17.280
it strikes me as incredibly meaningful to 
you know make the point that as you have

0:32:18.080,0:32:22.960
that multiple scales of action are 
necessary the local is necessary

0:32:22.960,0:32:30.000
the global is necessary this isn't an either or 
proposition and you know that mindset of scarcity

0:32:30.000,0:32:36.320
i think can easily take hold when one is talking 
about a minority group right that the the strategy

0:32:36.880,0:32:43.040
settle on one thing and focus on that but but what 
you're arguing for really is is plentitude and

0:32:43.040,0:32:48.800
and multiple courses of action any any thoughts 
there before we turn to the audience questions

0:32:51.120,0:32:59.600
yes uh yes i do um actually i think we also 
need to look on a school level uh with including

0:32:59.600,0:33:06.640
people with albinism because um i'm not going to 
school that's really hard for me to say because

0:33:06.640,0:33:13.360
i always say when people ask me about do i 
go to school yes i do and i have good grades

0:33:13.360,0:33:20.400
i did have grades my first year at high 
school but it was it started to begin

0:33:23.280,0:33:32.560
it was harder teachers will not include me with 
gym classes for example when you are choosing

0:33:33.360,0:33:42.560
to go on a team you are picked lost because you 
have yeah this condition that everyone can see

0:33:43.280,0:33:51.760
and people are judging by my color and judging 
by the things i can't do but i can do things

0:33:51.760,0:33:59.280
and i often don't i do not talk about those 
things those things often because i don't like to

0:34:00.640,0:34:06.400
say hi i'm a model i'm a supporter 
but sometimes i just want to say hey

0:34:06.400,0:34:12.480
i am a model and i uh uh trained on 
national level with multiple sports

0:34:15.840,0:34:22.480
and indeed and indeed when we first were preparing 
for this panel you identified i think after after

0:34:22.480,0:34:29.520
being a model and 16 year old you said i'm a rock 
climber this is who i am part of my identity and

0:34:29.520,0:34:35.920
uh and yet it sounds like the structures around 
you are not able to see that and support it and

0:34:35.920,0:34:42.000
and provide a structural way for you to you know 
to do what you would like to do and and need to do

0:34:43.600,0:34:52.080
if i could just um add something uh bridget is to 
shuly it is so heartbreaking to hear what you're

0:34:52.080,0:35:00.240
saying julie and i know so many young people 
have that experience and that's why i say i was

0:35:00.240,0:35:07.360
so fortunate not to have had that experience but 
it is a common experience it's a common experience

0:35:08.080,0:35:18.640
and i am so glad that you through i'm sure a lot 
of hard inner work that you are holding on to your

0:35:18.640,0:35:28.640
sense of who you are because for many people faced 
with that kind of exclusion uh from gears and from

0:35:28.640,0:35:36.160
teachers who are people that we look to to help 
lead us and model good behavior for the students

0:35:36.160,0:35:43.360
many people who would not have the strength 
that you have within you would simply fold in

0:35:43.360,0:35:50.400
on themselves and internalize how other people 
are treating them and i think that happens to a

0:35:50.400,0:35:57.840
lot of people and the the and i think in schools 
you're absolutely right that is the first place

0:35:57.840,0:36:02.400
that we need to be addressing this because the 
attitudes that people have when they're young

0:36:03.040,0:36:08.000
i think part of my experience was i had a very 
happy school experience so i never thought

0:36:08.000,0:36:14.720
and even with my eyesight people would help me the 
teacher would help me there were not even large

0:36:14.720,0:36:21.440
print books when i was going to school and yet 
the extra effort was made but that was only made

0:36:21.440,0:36:27.520
because i was fortunate enough to be able to go 
to a private school with small classes so again

0:36:28.240,0:36:34.000
it's this is what should be available to everybody 
not just somebody who has the resources we should

0:36:34.000,0:36:41.440
all be given those resources and i just want 
to congratulate you on your on your stamina

0:36:42.000,0:36:48.960
and your strength of spirit thank you very much 
but i do have to say i had big books and i had

0:36:49.520,0:36:56.400
uh software but i just didn't feel at all 
there were teachers that were kind to me

0:36:56.400,0:37:09.120
but also who didn't understand it and i was a teen 
so i was insecure and now i am on this panel so i

0:37:09.120,0:37:16.640
feel now a lot stronger than i did um at my first 
year of high school um so i think it's also very

0:37:16.640,0:37:22.400
important even if you have the resources i'm a 
very gifted person because i am in the netherlands

0:37:22.400,0:37:30.000
i have those resources but still i can't find 
my own way i need to search for my own way

0:37:33.120,0:37:39.600
well there is nothing stronger than being 
vulnerable in front of an audience of hundreds so

0:37:40.800,0:37:48.480
i stand an absolute admiration for for who you 
are and have the absolute certainty that who

0:37:48.480,0:37:53.440
you will become will be someone even more 
inspiring as you continue on this journey

0:37:53.440,0:38:01.280
so thank you for sharing with us okay i 
want to i want to bring in an audience

0:38:01.280,0:38:07.120
question that connects i believe between your 
experiences and what truly has just shared with us

0:38:07.120,0:38:14.720
now the question is how my companies collaborate 
and network to collectively unlock opportunities

0:38:14.720,0:38:23.200
to create more inclusivity and are there places 
for companies to connect or belong to that can

0:38:23.200,0:38:29.680
provide resources and for me the the end game 
of that question is julie has sketched out

0:38:29.680,0:38:36.400
a need which is educational interventions and 
better support for students right and if that's

0:38:36.400,0:38:41.600
the endgame of a need that has to be addressed 
on one end and then you have companies with

0:38:41.600,0:38:48.080
resources and inclusivity mandates on the other 
end what does it take to bring these two together

0:38:51.200,0:38:56.000
i think from experience and going back to what 
was mentioned i think that companies have to

0:38:56.000,0:39:01.760
be more proactive now this is part of the new 
form of leadership it is true that they do not

0:39:02.480,0:39:07.520
on the surface have the same legal 
obligation as a government but like i

0:39:07.520,0:39:12.080
said this move to the transformational form 
of doing business is doing business that is

0:39:12.080,0:39:19.440
profitable but also human and humane and also 
responsibilities can be shifted from the state to

0:39:19.440,0:39:24.400
companies and i'm sure many of you in the business 
school know that but i know on cases like this

0:39:24.400,0:39:29.360
which you know you are not necessarily violating 
someone's human rights this is not about going to

0:39:29.360,0:39:36.400
extract oil from nigeria's oil region at the 
expense of the villages this is more about how

0:39:36.400,0:39:42.080
can i help this young girl in high school how 
can i help that child who is now i don't know

0:39:42.080,0:39:46.640
has mental health issues because of what they went 
through in the african-american community in the

0:39:46.640,0:39:52.800
united states and how can i help the other one who 
just got attacked in malawi these are questions

0:39:52.800,0:39:58.880
that the business doesn't have an obligation 
to respond to but is beginning to have a social

0:39:59.440,0:40:06.640
obligation out of expectation that is coming from 
our society as it changes so i would say that a

0:40:06.640,0:40:11.840
company who is interested has to be proactive 
because most of these organizations supporting

0:40:11.840,0:40:17.200
people with albinism people with disabilities do 
not necessarily know that you your company has the

0:40:17.200,0:40:23.040
capacity they won't know that because it doesn't 
show in your financial records or your public face

0:40:23.040,0:40:27.920
so you have to have your human resource 
have somebody in charge of inclusion

0:40:27.920,0:40:32.720
building a transformational company to find 
some of the best talents with albinism out

0:40:32.720,0:40:38.000
there with disabilities out there and get them 
to go out and meet the blind institute the

0:40:38.000,0:40:44.480
deaf institute institute of people physical 
challenges and work with them to create this

0:40:45.040,0:40:50.160
position in your company where they can truly 
serve without making faking it don't fake a

0:40:50.160,0:40:55.760
position just create it so i would say mutual 
listening reaching out because only you know

0:40:55.760,0:41:01.280
what you can do and they'll be very happy uh 
to hear you i hear you out you can even pay for

0:41:01.280,0:41:06.000
programs like maybe a high school friendship 
program and can be called you know whatever

0:41:06.000,0:41:11.600
company after school program and such so i think 
there's a lot of opportunity if you take the lead

0:41:14.720,0:41:20.080
now there's another audience question that that i 
would direct to carol that builds on what you've

0:41:20.080,0:41:26.320
just shared ik the question is if a senior leader 
is responsible for building an inclusive climate

0:41:27.040,0:41:30.320
sometimes this is overwhelming 
where should they start

0:41:30.960,0:41:35.680
now we've heard you say ik that it requires 
leadership it requires being proactive

0:41:36.960,0:41:41.280
carol what would you add to this in terms of 
starting points for someone that knows they

0:41:41.280,0:41:47.840
have to do this work we can assume they're good 
intentions and they're not sure where to begin

0:41:49.680,0:41:59.200
well where to begin um there are so many there 
are so many levels of of inclusiveness um

0:41:59.840,0:42:09.360
and it's it's there is there is plenty to choose 
from in terms of bringing a variety of people into

0:42:09.360,0:42:19.760
a corporate setting and i think that one of the 
main things is in being proactive to not feel that

0:42:20.560,0:42:28.400
i'm coming to you because say say to an institute 
for the blind or disabilities group i'm not coming

0:42:28.400,0:42:36.560
to you as ik says to like ch check the box i'm 
coming to you to let the people who are involved

0:42:36.560,0:42:44.400
with your organization or who your organization 
serves to let them know what opportunities we have

0:42:45.280,0:42:52.480
and when they're brought into the organization 
or even interview i think it's very important

0:42:53.600,0:43:01.760
to be sure that the word integrated but 
to be sure that when they are brought in

0:43:02.400,0:43:09.200
that they are given the space to succeed 
that they're given the space to have dialogue

0:43:09.200,0:43:17.920
with other people in the company um just as we're 
seeing with shuli it's hard to come into a setting

0:43:17.920,0:43:21.520
say an educational setting would be the 
same thing in coming into a corporation

0:43:22.160,0:43:30.320
and to be vulnerable in that setting so i think 
that there are two parts to it one is to do the

0:43:30.320,0:43:37.520
outreach which is there's plenty to choose from 
i think you just need to do that legwork to reach

0:43:37.520,0:43:43.360
out to communicate and the second which i think 
is more challenging is once you're drawing people

0:43:43.360,0:43:50.000
in to provide them with a real experience and to 
provide them with a welcoming environment and a

0:43:50.000,0:43:57.440
welcoming environment is not just sensitivity 
training or diversity training it is the way

0:43:57.440,0:44:02.800
you as a corporate leader treat somebody 
that you're bringing in who is not the same

0:44:02.800,0:44:09.760
as everybody else who's there the way you treat 
them and the way you honor their uniqueness um

0:44:10.960,0:44:17.600
and again just like teachers i think it's modeling 
that and you can't fake it you have to feel it so

0:44:18.800,0:44:24.080
um so i'm not sure that really answers the 
question but i think it just takes a lot of inner

0:44:24.080,0:44:31.360
work frankly on the part of hr people and other 
corporate leaders who are looking to diversify

0:44:31.360,0:44:38.320
and include people they have to do the inner work 
themselves and think about how are they looking

0:44:38.320,0:44:44.400
at these people who are quote unquote different 
than them or different than their company and

0:44:44.400,0:44:52.880
if they're not truly open to seeing them as just 
another person who has talents and skills to offer

0:44:53.600,0:44:58.080
then it's not going to work they have to they 
have to have that in their own hearts i think

0:44:59.040,0:45:00.320
so that's where i would begin

0:45:02.480,0:45:06.800
now we have another question that builds on 
what you've just said which is rather than

0:45:06.800,0:45:13.120
quotas what should companies consider 
as the measure of success you've already

0:45:13.120,0:45:18.880
started talking about this carol by saying 
the environment matters intention matters

0:45:19.440,0:45:25.120
what else can be considered a measure of 
success beyond box ticking beyond quotas

0:45:28.000,0:45:36.640
well i think that the that any corporation 
or small or small business small or large

0:45:37.200,0:45:44.800
has a mission and that it's very important 
for the mission whatever it is to be thought

0:45:44.800,0:45:51.440
of in terms of the people being served 
and the larger community so for example

0:45:52.080,0:45:56.880
uh when i was talking earlier about say 
pharmaceutical companies well we know that's

0:45:57.840,0:46:02.800
despite the you know discussions we could all have 
about pharmaceutical companies and how much money

0:46:02.800,0:46:11.440
they make and so on and so forth basically the 
mission is to uh you know to to provide cures

0:46:11.440,0:46:19.680
provide treatment provide prevention for illness 
and i think that it can't be it can't just be

0:46:19.680,0:46:25.440
that that is the mission but i think their 
larger mission has to be to have an impact

0:46:25.440,0:46:35.760
on the larger community who gets hired who gets 
included and who has input into that um so it's

0:46:38.160,0:46:43.360
i guess just seeing social social impact 
has become another box that we tick

0:46:43.360,0:46:51.520
but again i would say to think of the impact of 
your hiring your staffing your idea development

0:46:51.520,0:46:57.120
your r d to be the more to really believe 
that the more people you have there the more

0:46:57.120,0:47:01.360
and larger community you're serving and 
the more diverse community you're serving

0:47:01.360,0:47:04.720
you know not to just focus as i 
was saying earlier about albinism

0:47:05.360,0:47:12.480
i i don't like to think of albinism being a niche 
i like to think of when we're advocating for

0:47:12.480,0:47:19.680
people with albinism we're out we're advocating 
for everybody who has a difference that has

0:47:19.680,0:47:26.000
a negative impact on their life experience so 
we may be doing it through the lens of albinism

0:47:26.560,0:47:33.120
but we have to see it more broadly and i think 
in looking at their at their impact i think

0:47:33.120,0:47:38.320
corporations have to look in a broader way in 
terms of how they're affecting the larger world

0:47:40.400,0:47:50.000
well said and this is why until black lives 
matter i cannot flourish this is why my feminism

0:47:51.440,0:47:58.240
intersectional it's because human flourishing 
is indeed connected and we cannot fly until we

0:47:58.240,0:48:07.680
are all flourishing ik julie what would you say is 
the measure of success beyond quotas for inclusion

0:48:11.280,0:48:18.320
for my part i would say we need indicators 
and right now there are clear indicators on

0:48:19.040,0:48:24.160
how to measure success in the implementation 
of the convention on the rights of people with

0:48:24.160,0:48:29.120
disabilities so people with albinism fall into 
the larger group as carol was mentioning the

0:48:29.120,0:48:33.760
larger group of people with disabilities but 
for some of us we also fall under the larger

0:48:33.760,0:48:39.120
groups of racialized groups like the convention 
on eliminating racial discrimination but since the

0:48:39.120,0:48:45.760
majority fall under the crpd the convention on the 
rights of people with disabilities i'll use that

0:48:45.760,0:48:51.520
as my takeoff point to suggest starting with the 
indicators that have been developed for the crpd

0:48:52.080,0:48:57.840
and then companies say for instance in the uk like 
a few companies who are partners or work together

0:48:57.840,0:49:03.520
in some form or in the same industry could 
then form like uh uh friends for people

0:49:03.520,0:49:08.640
with disabilities coalition for instance or a 
partnership like that so like let's say huggies

0:49:08.640,0:49:13.280
making diapers can approach um i don't know 
another company making diapers and they could

0:49:13.280,0:49:19.440
come together and have this loose friendship and 
put aside their competitiveness um for the moment

0:49:19.440,0:49:24.160
or maybe if that's naive partner with anybody 
you want and then come up with this correlation

0:49:24.160,0:49:29.360
of ferns and then come up with the indicators that 
are adapted to where you are so take for instance

0:49:29.360,0:49:35.840
the crpd indicators on employment right and then 
adapt them to where you are but you must have in

0:49:35.840,0:49:41.600
the room people with disabilities joining 
you as partners and not just as subsidiary

0:49:41.600,0:49:46.000
entities to come up with what those indicators 
are and look there you are you have like

0:49:46.000,0:49:52.720
you've created uh indicators for um employment 
disabilities or inclusion in employment for the uk

0:49:52.720,0:49:56.960
maybe there is one i don't know i'm just saying 
this is something that can be done if it doesn't

0:49:56.960,0:50:02.800
exist and then you can then measure yourselves 
with those indicators to see how you're moving

0:50:02.800,0:50:07.600
um forward because that indicator is something 
that has been developed not only by yourselves as

0:50:07.600,0:50:13.840
business-minded profit-driven entities but also by 
people with uh disabilities and the indicator will

0:50:13.840,0:50:20.880
be like a emerging or integration of both of those 
uh goals in a way that satisfies both parties um

0:50:20.880,0:50:26.000
at the end of it so this is something i think 
that can that can be done um to to measure the

0:50:26.000,0:50:32.560
impact of inclusion and that is objective but also 
inclusive in its in the measurements itself yeah

0:50:35.040,0:50:37.840
and julie what do you think 
success should look like

0:50:42.880,0:50:49.680
well if you are starting to look for success 
you won't find it because you are looking to

0:50:49.680,0:50:53.680
that specific thing but if you 
look to people who are up to

0:50:53.680,0:51:01.200
to the job and examples of people who 
can beat the odds then i think you can

0:51:01.200,0:51:08.080
reach that goal but if you are looking 
to one thing you will go in circles

0:51:11.520,0:51:19.120
now another question for you shulee from an 
audience member having entered the modeling world

0:51:19.120,0:51:22.800
and experienced the challenges 
of the modeling world

0:51:22.800,0:51:28.320
are there other avenues you plan to explore 
to support the vital work that you're doing

0:51:30.320,0:51:42.480
um i think it's important that we should talk 
about this subject and not me but me as a person

0:51:47.200,0:51:54.960
so in your own personal life you will continue 
your advocacy regardless of modeling yes

0:51:54.960,0:52:03.040
i think um i am the personnel that can talk 
about it but i'm also that person who can talk

0:52:03.680,0:52:11.360
about my disability as a climber or as a athlete

0:52:15.520,0:52:21.200
now to take the conversation in a slightly 
different direction but i think this is some

0:52:21.200,0:52:28.160
empirically useful information for our audience ik 
there's a question for you uh you reference that

0:52:28.160,0:52:34.480
your uh your tenure with the u n your mandate 
is coming to a close there's a question is the

0:52:34.480,0:52:41.520
un continuing the mandate on albinism what 
is the future of the un-based advocacy work

0:52:43.520,0:52:49.040
uh thankful thankfully the un has decided 
to continue the mandate i was the first

0:52:49.040,0:52:54.480
mandate holder appointed in 2015 and this year 
they've decided to renew for another three years

0:52:55.040,0:53:02.160
and i believe by the end of july there will be a 
new appointment they the un seems to be committed

0:53:02.160,0:53:07.360
to the issue because especially because the 
attacks are still going on in some countries and

0:53:07.360,0:53:12.480
then some other countries are yet to be explored 
especially in asia to find out what happens

0:53:12.480,0:53:16.960
there because we know there are some violations 
maybe not attacks but some serious violations

0:53:16.960,0:53:22.000
so i'm glad that they they will be continuing and 
finally they have a campaign site that is still up

0:53:22.560,0:53:33.520
albinism.ohchr.org where they have a lot of 
stories of people with albinism yes thanks now we

0:53:33.520,0:53:39.600
have a few moments left let's hear from all of our 
panelists the answer to their answer to a question

0:53:39.600,0:53:46.400
we've received which is who has an example 
of an organization or a leader that has done

0:53:46.400,0:53:53.600
proactive inclusion particularly well what does 
good look like and how can others aspire to it

0:53:54.720,0:53:59.360
so who out there is doing the right thing 
setting an example that should be followed

0:54:04.400,0:54:09.840
it is time for us to name names

0:54:12.480,0:54:23.440
i think joseph turner is a good example of 
someone who is a great example but i think

0:54:23.440,0:54:33.840
that everyone in his own or her own way 
or that he or she is doing uh his own

0:54:33.840,0:54:43.840
is making his own legacy and um just patronus 
um sadly passed away but i still see his legacy

0:54:45.120,0:54:52.560
and i see as he still how he's doing how he's 
changing the world even if he did pass away

0:55:00.400,0:55:10.000
oh and example about a company i think 
also that that we are uh changing that uh

0:55:10.000,0:55:19.360
for example companies for example tony chocoloni 
is saying about people who uh who were not treated

0:55:19.360,0:55:27.920
right that they are saying well we're gonna help 
this world in making sure that people who who are

0:55:28.960,0:55:35.920
yeah lower on the social standards 
that that we are gonna or that

0:55:35.920,0:55:40.960
tony chocolone is gonna treat those people 
equal and that they get good pay rates

0:55:43.440,0:55:47.840
and this is for those of you who don't 
know this is a dutch chocolate company

0:55:50.880,0:55:58.800
what what other examples of of individual leaders 
organizations might we start to think of as as

0:55:59.680,0:56:05.440
as models in this space although shuli just said 
which is a very powerful point that everyone needs

0:56:05.440,0:56:15.840
to also think about making their own legacy rather 
than just copying what what others have have done

0:56:21.840,0:56:28.720
go ahead carol oh i was going to say i find 
it distressing that i'm having so much trouble

0:56:28.720,0:56:37.120
answering this question which maybe is an 
answer in and of itself um but i think that i

0:56:37.120,0:56:43.840
hesitate to do it because i i feel that we 
are very much at the beginning of this road

0:56:45.040,0:56:53.360
and i think that um that truly makes a very good 
point that that that we should not be looking to

0:56:53.920,0:57:00.720
a person or a company to see how is it done or 
that's what it looks like because it will look

0:57:00.720,0:57:10.000
different in different contexts and i would rather 
turn it around to say for everyone to think what

0:57:10.000,0:57:17.600
could they be doing to become an organization 
that we would all be jumping in there to name

0:57:18.640,0:57:25.440
there certainly are a lot of organizations that 
are active in corporate philanthropy are trying to

0:57:25.440,0:57:34.720
make diversity efforts but to really be inclusive 
i think we're really at the very very beginning um

0:57:35.760,0:57:45.440
of this road and and that might be that would be 
a very interesting um forum uh and it may need

0:57:45.440,0:57:51.360
to be a private forum i'm not even thinking 
of public forum is for uh for companies that

0:57:51.360,0:57:59.360
are are dedicated to this are truly dedicated to 
meet and to share ideas and to share things that

0:57:59.360,0:58:06.080
have failed not just what we're such a success 
driven society that we're often not willing to say

0:58:07.120,0:58:14.720
you know we tried x y and z and it doesn't really 
feel like like we we really made any progress

0:58:14.720,0:58:24.080
and for people to learn from what they tried and 
what didn't work um so i i'm sure that i'm um i'm

0:58:24.080,0:58:29.440
not giving credit to some people who deserve 
credit but i do think that we should be struck

0:58:29.440,0:58:36.800
by the fact that we're not you know listing 
dozens of um dozens of high achievers in this

0:58:36.800,0:58:43.840
area which isn't to be discouraging it's to say 
i think it's a process and um i would like more

0:58:44.480,0:58:49.840
more businesses to be on that road and i encourage 
every business that is already on that road

0:58:50.960,0:58:55.360
which frankly are probably i i mean this is 
sort of different than what the question is but

0:58:55.360,0:59:00.560
i think that microfinancing um 
groups come to mind to me not

0:59:00.560,0:59:08.000
as trying to create diversity or inclusion 
but through microcredit they are enabling

0:59:08.960,0:59:15.440
more diverse more diverse and more 
disenfranchised groups of people to

0:59:16.160,0:59:21.280
have independence and dignity through microcredit 
but that's a different it's a different kind of

0:59:21.280,0:59:25.760
thing but that's that's how i would picture 
something that's been very successful

0:59:27.600,0:59:35.200
now we're almost out of time but ik closing 
thoughts on this question sure um so it is true

0:59:35.200,0:59:41.280
that this is the beginning of a journey but those 
who have started well or in the past or even now

0:59:41.280,0:59:47.120
include for instance in canada i would give 
credit to the royal bank of canada indeed they're

0:59:47.120,0:59:52.400
a very big and successful bank and i think these 
corporations that are very successful thanks to

0:59:52.400,1:00:00.160
them they have more risk to take in on this issue 
to to be more transformational so rbc gave me my

1:00:00.160,1:00:06.000
first opportunity i became a bank what you call 
it banker with bank teller we say north america

1:00:06.000,1:00:10.160
and i never imagined i would they gave me 
a big screen and all that and i worked fine

1:00:10.720,1:00:15.680
with them however one thing i should say is that 
i was able to go through the interview processes

1:00:15.680,1:00:22.240
with enough confidence a lot of my colleagues with 
low vision disabilities didn't have it so easy so

1:00:22.240,1:00:28.400
one area i see corporations really helping to 
facilitate inclusivity is to help build some

1:00:28.400,1:00:34.320
particular empowerment training programs that help 
people with disabilities know how to be less for

1:00:34.320,1:00:39.600
instance socially awkward let's face it a lot 
of people who have been socially marginalized

1:00:39.600,1:00:43.920
carry a certain degree of awkwardness 
and the reason why mine might be little

1:00:43.920,1:00:51.440
is because i'm nigerian and many of us are not 
shy yeah so because of the population or whatever

1:00:51.440,1:00:56.240
but i think a lot of my colleagues i watch them 
act and i find that ok if i was an entrepreneur

1:00:56.240,1:01:01.760
maybe i wouldn't have been ready to hire this 
type of social behavior so i think the people

1:01:01.760,1:01:06.480
with disabilities need to be supported because 
marginalization breeds more marginalization

1:01:06.480,1:01:10.880
it makes them awkward they get more marginalized 
so this is where corporations can invest the

1:01:10.880,1:01:17.120
second example is from the global south safaricom 
i think it was who whenever they had a contest on

1:01:17.120,1:01:22.400
albinism they had mr and mrs albinism as a kind of 
fun way to raise awareness they would show up and

1:01:22.400,1:01:28.800
hire like 10 people at once so competitions 
offering competitions maybe not pageantries since

1:01:28.800,1:01:33.760
those are now not popular in this part of the 
world but you can offer competitions and then pay

1:01:33.760,1:01:39.920
and then give as prices job placements and 
then give them training through through that

1:01:39.920,1:01:45.520
so those are the two examples that i think are 
on their way to becoming more solid examples

1:01:47.280,1:01:56.720
this brings us to the end of this session thank 
you so much ik carol for your reflections your

1:01:57.360,1:02:03.440
candidness we've all benefited for it and i 
would encourage everyone to share the link

1:02:03.440,1:02:09.280
to this webcast far and wide the video will be 
shared with those who've registered i believe

1:02:09.280,1:02:16.320
it will also be available on the youtube page for 
the site business school uh stay in touch with the

1:02:16.320,1:02:24.000
work that ik is doing on twitter surely we will 
continue to look for you in the pages of vogue and

1:02:24.000,1:02:31.760
carol your observations are a gift to us all um so 
thank you everyone and uh we hope to see you again

1:02:32.400,1:02:43.440
uh we hope to see you again thank you 
thank you thanks bridget thank you