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Hello and welcome to today's Leadership
in Extraordinary Times session from Oxford

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University's Saïd Business School, wherever you
are, whatever time it is, whether you're joining us

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live or you're enjoying the podcast, welcome and
thanks for joining us. My name is Michael Smets;

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I'm a Professor of Management here at Oxford
Saïd and it's my great pleasure to host a

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conversation today on one of the central topics
of leadership: how to get ahead and stay ahead

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even in adverse circumstances. It is my
distinct pleasure to welcome a panel

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that knows probably more than many others about
this. My first guest is Toto Wolff, team principal

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of Mercedes-AMG Petronas Formula One, who obviously
crowned their record-breaking streak of wins with

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last season's seventh consecutive double world
championship title; a very warm welcome Toto -

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Hi everybody - Toto is joined by Tengku Taufik,
the CEO and president of Petronas, obviously

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the winning partnership behind this team,
and we will discuss together the success that

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the team has enjoyed but also think about
the various leadership challenges they face

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running organisations that are quite different
in terms of scale, size, and speed of change but

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while the past season has been marked by some
adversity - the COVID crisis obviously didn't spare

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Formula One - We should also think about some of the
chicanes that might be lying ahead for Formula One

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and the petrochemical industry, so how
do we sustain success through adversity

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in the future as we consider more
closely the impact of both industries

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on society, sustainability, and well-being, and
that's why I'm delighted that together we will

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also be joined by my dear colleague, Professor
Marya Basharov; she is the Professor

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of organisations and Impact here at Oxford Saïd.
Welcome Marya, welcome to all of you. Now Marya

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and I have obviously a host of questions that we
would love to ask Toto and Tengku Taufik, but

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of course we're also really keen to hear your
questions so whatever channel you're joining us

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on please make ample use of the chat function,
send us your questions, tell us where you are

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and the question you're interested in, and we
will feed them into the conversation whenever

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possible. Now of course Toto, I started mentioning
the record winning streak that you crowned

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last year and what I want to know given that the
current Formula One season is already underway, how

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do you leverage that track read in moments when
maybe as at the moment you're possibly slightly

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less dominant. Do you leverage at all, is it
water under the bridge or is it something that

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the team goes back to in terms of
sustaining their success into the future?

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Well thank you for for having us, it's quite
interesting because there was- it's something

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that I read from a famous baseball coach,
'yesterday's home run doesn't win you today's game'

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and that's very much true, so we are trying with
simple actions to forget about the success of the

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past few years, everything, every point goes to
zero and you can build upon the organisation

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and I'm going to come to that in a second, but
as everything starts from you, you

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got to earn your laurels again and we do this by
basically eliminating all relics of the past, all

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trophies, everything that that shows us that we
have won seven consecutive championships because

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you can't rely on that. I think it's important to
to acknowledge that the competition is fierce and

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it's the best people in the industry and you
gotta just do the best job, again in this in

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this coming year, in every session and in
every day, rather than relying on past year success.

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Now I'm afraid then that I will have to bring up
the past season because obviously we would like

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to know how did the COVID crisis affect not just
the team and obviously the way that Formula One

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operated, but also your personal leadership, did
you find that in the way you address the team, you

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lead the team you had to change personally
to kind of adapt to the circumstances?

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Yes as everybody has had his experiences or
her, their experiences is that we had to adapt

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and in a way also our team's mentality is
that almost the darwinistic principle that

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not the strongest survive but the most
the ones who adapt the best, and it was

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very different, the races got cancelled, we had
to shut down the factory - first in a mandatory

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shutdown and then slowly everybody started to come
back, we had to balance out who was coming back and

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who not whilst not of course losing performance -
but obviously the most important was not risking

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anybody's health and for me personally it
was quite a dramatic experience because I'm used

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to running in the hamster wheel and it's what I
enjoy to do, the racing gives me structure

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also. And suddenly the music stops and you find
yourself with yourself in a situation that you

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haven't been in before and at the beginning it
was very difficult to understand where that

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was going; but I think the positives out of
it that I have learned to slow down, I've ...

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I spent time reflecting on the team's success and
what I was expecting from myself going forward and

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I very much encouraged everybody in the team
to do this as well, and when when you're in

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such a situation that you are allowed actually
to lean back and spend time thinking

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that brings great advantages long term because
you're moving from the dance floor to the balcony

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and long term this has only positive
effects, and then obviously like many other

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conventional industries it has created a better
work-life balance - people can work more from home

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rather than rushing into the office in the
morning just because you need to - So overall

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a side of the health situation obviously there is
some positives that were, that we had to adapt to.

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Okay and this whole idea of finding
some distance, stepping onto the balcony, finding

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time to think about the future is obviously
a theme we're going to revisit later on as

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we think about Formula One and the future of the
petrochemical industry from a balcony perspective,

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but of course I would first like to go to
Tengku, because your experience of

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leadership in the pandemic has obviously been
a very different one because, as I understand,

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you succeeded to the role of CEO pretty much in
the midst of the pandemic, what does that do

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to your leadership, to the way you build connection
with the organisation, you manage your own personal

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leadership when you're stepping into this kind
of top role at a distance? Thank you Michael,

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thank you Marya, thank you for having me,
it's a great question to kick off 

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this panel/discussion. First thing it does is -
of course - raise your blood pressure, I can look

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back at it and maybe have a wry grin and look at
it and say I joined the roller coaster and it was

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about to do probably one of the most interesting
loop the loops the industry had contended with,

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2020 was a year of superlatives I think, and
superlatives at both ends of the spectrum,

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the fastest acceleration of digital solutions
in response to having to work from home, the most

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precipitous drop in oil and gas demand and energy
demand drop. I think if those of you were tracking

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the industry would have seen 20 to 25 million
barrels of oil demand a day just evaporate, we

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never saw oil prices moving to negative territory
but it did the WTI-Brent hit a multi-decade low

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and all of this happened when energy transition
was accelerated, it became a lot more evident

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and the demand for sustainable and responsible
practices by people within the energy industry

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became far more pronounced. I don't have to expound
the more evangelical and activist actions

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of shareholders and investors across the world
as they made their stance known in the capital

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markets. All of this while we're wrestling today
the number stands, tragically we've got

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a hundred about 180 million cases worldwide;
in Malaysia alone we've hit an intra-day

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high of 9000 daily cases. Petronas, it's sad for me
to sometimes acknowledge but we've lost 18 people

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in our family and these are people
who are staffing the practice -- all of these

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combine in a cocktail that forces leadership,
and at this juncture when you are put in the seat

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the first thing that people ask
of you and your leadership team

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is to remind them of purpose and make them stay
the course and as you go and the old saying

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goes 'the best sailors are made in the rougher
seas' and you go and traverse and navigate this

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very, very uncertain environment, you're
always there to act as sounding board and

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unleash successes - small as they may be - but making
sure those wins happen in sequence repeatedly

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even through the darkness of times. I think
our financial results are out and 2020 was

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not a good set of numbers, we've come back and
 recovered in the first quarter, we've just

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released the financial results yesterday so there
is light at the end of the tunnel, it's just a

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very long tunnel and it's got 
dips and loops to right through. I don't mean

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to trivialize this but this is a period that has
caused a great reset for the industry; everybody's

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just got to rethink their entire approach to
providing energy and solutions to their customers.

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Marya, obviously you spend plenty of time thinking
about these kind of crucible leaderships, the

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crucibles in which leaders are forged and it
sounds like that that Tengku was thrown deep

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into a very very fiery one, so do you think this
is kind of a an opportunity even for leaders

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to step through that and grow through that or
how do we think about these kind of challenges

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of leadership? Absolutely Michael, it's
a great question, I think it's both. Opportunity,

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it's obviously challenge, right, and I think
we heard from both Tengku and Toto about the

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different ways in which the past year for both
of them as individual leaders and also for their

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organisations has really been one of grappling
with the all sorts of competing demands, competing

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strategic priorities, competing human priorities
that we often wish weren't competing but sometimes

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it feels that way and it's felt especially that
way in the last year and a lot of what we heard

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from them was about certainly the ways in which
that has been extremely challenging - personally

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for their people, for their organisations - but
also how it's been an opportunity for growth and

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development both for them as individual leaders 
and certainly an opportunity for the organisation.

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The word of reset, of sort of focusing in on
purpose has come up already in our discussion

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and one of the things that we've seen
certainly in this last year but really across

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work on leadership across industries and over
time is the ways in which these kinds of moments-

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this is a particularly extreme moment that we've
been in this past year but there are many more

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minor kinds of moments like this really. Of
course, they present challenges but open opportunities

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for new creative ways forward to emerge as
leaders develop and as their organisations develop.

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Great and I mean if I just play this
back then to Tengku if I may, so

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in a world where you initially connect in this
this virtual way - and we hear this all the time

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at the moment about the return to the office -
how do we sustain culture as you assert

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your leadership in this very turbulent time and
doing so without the ability to meet many people

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face to face? Have you found that there are
certain elements of your culture that 

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are easier to maintain or are there some that 
you find that take a little bit more work from

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a corporate leader to to sustain? Yeah this is a
very pertinent question, I think isolation,

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not being able to enjoy team dynamics I think
myself but often discussed about this the dynamics

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of being able to interact, bounce off ideas is
invaluable. But what the pandemic has forced upon

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us is a virtual reality that you have to deal with
and everything was accelerated. In typical fashion

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a very risk averse organisation straddling
many geographies that have taken many many

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months to test bed, roll out in waves and
pilot programmes, how to get to a universal

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virtual communications platform, we didn't have
any choice where the pandemic arrived and the

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who confirmed it was a pandemic it was go, and
basically from the word go you had to manage

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deliverables, you had to manage outcomes 
from remote locations, and you could not

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get the contact or the interactions that
you are normally used to. This may have - and

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I think Marya will probably be able to comment
about this later on - may have long-term impact,

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we've had intakes who would not see the superiors,
we've had team members who have not been able

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to interact physically in a room for more than a
year, everybody foresaw this to be a three to six

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month phenomenon but the reality is we're dealing
with a dynamic which may last for quite a while

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yet so we've just had to call - I think Marya's 
point earlier around using this crisis and picking

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out all the opportunities to improve ways of
working has come back, of course. We found that you can

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really reduce your energy consumption, things can
be done more efficiently, but one thing has come up

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very very strongly as leaders in your team you
can never ever under communicate, it is repeat

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reach out,reinforce, repeat, re-reach out and
reinforce, and ultimately also I think it is

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you have to be assured on the note
of communication there. It's a great

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point to maybe bring in some of the questions that
we've been receiving in the chat and I'm going to

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combine some of them but Takis and Ariana
both raised related questions to Toto about

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the role of culture and in sustaining
your team especially through the past year

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and the role of your leadership
style, how would you describe yourself

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as a leader? It's always very slippery slope if
you start to describe your own leadership,

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I think what is key to how I
try to work within the organisation

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is the relationships, I really put a lot of
time into the relationships

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with my direct reports but also the people 
that I get to interact whilst crossing them and

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in the corridors or on the racetracks and I
think they feel that I care, in a way I see the

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organisation and and and also the wider part
of my tribe that I'm responsible for to protect

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to lead in the right way and I take great
pride in doing that and so I believe

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that the key component for myself and obviously
that is not, can't be a general rule, is that I'm so

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interested in getting to know and understanding
what worries what worries our people,

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what incentivise, how to incentivise them, what
motivates them and I try to provide a

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framework for each and every one because we're
always speaking about companies or teams but at

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the end of the day, it's all the people and
I have the feeling that us or that some

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of my peers they think about their own life how
how can I have an impact within the organisation,

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how do I want to organise my time, how
do I want to be incentivised, and they forget

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they need to put the same amount of
time into analysing what are all the people that

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they have direct interaction with -
what do they want, how

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do they see their life panning out - and if you
can alignment if you can find alignment

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between the objectives in your life I think
then you have a very very strong position, and

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I can't design an aerodynamic surface but I know a
lot about the person who can and they feel that I

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care and in a way they are my most important-
I have this customer theory

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customers are people that are important
in your life, everything that I communicate

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or that that I plan strategically
is about the people in the organisation.

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Now you say that that you care and you want to
understand what others worry about, and of course

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the risk for a leader in a way
is then that you absorb a lot of that.

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And so Amina asked the question in the chat
is how do you make sure that you yourself

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remain mentally balanced - and of course you
face the added pressure that every weekend

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you're expected to explain those emotions
also on television - there was an earlier comment

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in the chat again, how do you manage the 
emotional investment in the team and how

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you behave backstage with also your use or
display of emotions on a more public stage?

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So a few questions, I found out that - as someone
that is more in the spotlight - in front of a camera

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representing fantastic brands such as Mercedes and
Petronas, I need to be authentic but I have also

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seen that when I see people that have more
visible roles you tend to think

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they're happy to have everything in their lives -
good relationships, money and success - the truth is

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that is not a universal rule. I myself
before I joined Formula One had a bit of a

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- well that's actually an
underexaggeration -

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I had a real midlife crisis, I didn't know
whether I should stay in finance or whether I

0:19:38.640,0:19:43.680
should do something else and I found myself at
the Monaco Grand Prix by sheer coincidence and

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for me, everybody who was there working in the
teams was just living the perfect life, so fast

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forward 20 years and I find myself in the same
situation and I still struggle in a way,

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at times we just need to understand
that we're all having bad days or bad weeks or

0:20:03.360,0:20:09.760
bad months where we need to spend time
with ourselves and comprehend what makes us happy

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 and I think this reflection helps you
to better understand how you want to structure

0:20:17.360,0:20:24.240
your life. So to come back to your question, like
many other people I struggle from mental health

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issues and I have a great team, I mean this
is not a universal I am pathologically

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ill, it's more that I acknowledge that all
the best people that I have worked with

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they have downtime and if they have a
great group around them the group will carry the

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ball, and for me that was last year. COVID came and
I didn't really know whether I wanted to continue

0:20:51.920,0:20:57.520
in the sport, whether I was a one-trick pony or
finance was what I actually wanted to come back,

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and for months I couldn't find an answer to my
questions and obviously then you're not

0:21:03.440,0:21:07.600
the best yourself. So in order to protect
your organisation, in order to create the

0:21:07.600,0:21:13.840
best possible framework you need to look after
yourself. If I'm not in a good place I can't

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- and this is something my technical director 
used when I said I'm just not the best me and

0:21:21.520,0:21:28.240
I will come back in a few days - he said
'take all the time because when you come back you

0:21:28.240,0:21:34.640
need to sprinkle your magic dust, 
if you don't feel like you can at the moment,

0:21:34.640,0:21:39.680
that's okay we will carry the ball' and
that is something that I found really reassuring

0:21:39.680,0:21:45.520
and showed me that the organisation that we
have all been part of is really strong, that 

0:21:45.520,0:21:51.840
if you need to put yourself out for a moment
somebody else is going to carry the ball. Great,

0:21:52.960,0:21:56.800
let's pose that same question to
Tengku, if I may. We all know that as

0:21:56.800,0:22:04.400
CEOs step up into the role media scrutiny, you
mentioned shareholder scrutiny, multiplies.

0:22:04.400,0:22:09.680
So again how did you brace yourself
for the role or is there anything that still

0:22:09.680,0:22:14.560
has taken you by surprise in the way that
that you manage yourself in this new role?

0:22:16.880,0:22:23.360
A great question, you're always going to be
surprised, nothing ever comes around twice

0:22:23.360,0:22:30.160
in this this industry and I think one of the
probable pitfalls of this particular role is 

0:22:30.160,0:22:36.080
we're a national oil company, we were born as a
national company, we have defined our purpose and

0:22:36.080,0:22:42.240
we behave very much as a an IOC - an international
oil company - and we have the processes and the

0:22:42.240,0:22:50.640
governance around it, but seriously, no system
really gets proven until it gets tested

0:22:50.640,0:22:56.640
and every individual within the system got
tested fully last year, and I am no exception.

0:22:57.360,0:23:02.080
There were mistakes, I will be the first
to admit it, there were mistakes in dealing with

0:23:02.080,0:23:06.800
the press, there were mistakes probably
in dealing with the narratives around

0:23:06.800,0:23:12.880
perhaps how the way that we structured
our capital, communicated our growth story,

0:23:13.520,0:23:21.200
but people know that these were probably
steps taken to improve your situation out of

0:23:21.200,0:23:27.120
a crisis and people people accept that over time
there is a degree of latitude you need to give

0:23:27.120,0:23:32.720
this management. No one's been in this position
before, I can say that everyone within the

0:23:32.720,0:23:40.080
CEO role of an energy company has not seen this
triple threat of a supply glut, accelerated energy

0:23:40.080,0:23:46.800
transition and and the demand falling away from
under our feet, converging in such rapid fashion,

0:23:47.600,0:23:53.680
wrapped around a pandemic which still threatens
us today. So mistakes will be made as leaders, you

0:23:53.680,0:24:00.160
will need to allow for it and I think I'm thankful
I've got a board which is supportive, a

0:24:00.160,0:24:05.440
shareholder I can be open with - the shareholder is
the government of Malaysia - my communication

0:24:05.440,0:24:10.320
with them has been quite frank and open and
and we tell them the constraints and limitations

0:24:10.320,0:24:16.960
that we face. But there you are, I think 
communication again comes to the fore - just

0:24:16.960,0:24:23.760
as Toto says sometimes in meetings - things get 
a little bit too heated, sometimes you don't think

0:24:23.760,0:24:30.320
in the most clear fashion, it is not the most
opportune moment for you, you need to distance

0:24:30.320,0:24:34.480
yourself from the noise and boy was there
a lot of noise last year and there's still

0:24:34.480,0:24:42.080
a lot of noise going on now. Great, Marya, I
know that obviously the role of emotions

0:24:42.080,0:24:47.360
in leadership personas is an area of great
interest for you so please add your comments.

0:24:48.160,0:24:53.440
Yes thank you Michael, and it's great to hear
both from Toto and Tengku on these topics, they

0:24:53.440,0:25:00.000
resonate a lot with what we hear in our work with
leaders across industries, in working with

0:25:00.000,0:25:05.760
the crisis but also in other in less
unusual or extraordinary times, shall we say.

0:25:05.760,0:25:12.000
I want to just amplify a few points that we've
heard. First from Toto, a lot of what we

0:25:12.000,0:25:17.520
heard you describe was really consistent
with an approach that we see increasingly

0:25:17.520,0:25:22.720
needed and thankfully also increasingly common
among leaders, which is one that is much more

0:25:22.720,0:25:28.880
of not just the leader as the visionary out there
in front leading the charge, but the leader as the

0:25:28.880,0:25:35.280
facilitator and the leader as creating the space
in which others can engage and listen and there

0:25:35.280,0:25:40.320
can be dialogue and there may even be conflict -
there often is conflict, constructive conflict

0:25:40.320,0:25:47.840
ideally - but that the role of the leader very much
as you described is one of creating the space

0:25:47.840,0:25:55.760
to listen, to understand others and to allow people
to find their own role and fit in the organisation

0:25:55.760,0:26:02.000
and to help them best align their interests and
capabilities with the organisation's need. And of

0:26:02.000,0:26:07.120
course as you also said that takes a lot of work
and a big toll on the leader right and so another

0:26:07.120,0:26:14.240
important theme that I'd like to amplify is really
the need to do the self work if you will,

0:26:14.240,0:26:21.200
to take care of yourself as you discussed
 and to find the capacity to really to hold

0:26:21.200,0:26:27.440
the complexity of the senior team and
the organisation as a whole and to be able to

0:26:27.440,0:26:33.280
bring all of your strength to that, and sometimes
that does require stepping back as you said, it

0:26:33.280,0:26:39.360
certainly also often requires a strong support
network and team within the organisation and

0:26:39.360,0:26:45.200
of course also outside the organisation. And then
thinking about Tengku's comments, one thing that 

0:26:45.200,0:26:49.600
came up in what you were just saying - but also
in some of your earlier comments about culture -

0:26:49.600,0:26:55.600
I would highlight around experimenting and
learning, right, we're all sort of navigating

0:26:55.600,0:27:02.720
this for the first time, it's
an unprecedented experience and the need to see

0:27:02.720,0:27:07.760
these moments - of course we need to perform, we need
to be accountable - but to see these as moments for

0:27:07.760,0:27:13.920
learning we're not always going to get it right
it's uncharted territory and what we can do

0:27:13.920,0:27:22.160
is to learn from how things unfold to reflect and
just to try again to adapt and so this notion of

0:27:22.160,0:27:27.360
this as a special time but always in this
mode of experimenting and learning, and right

0:27:27.360,0:27:31.920
now if we think about the kinds of swings and
the missteps and the challenges we're having

0:27:31.920,0:27:38.960
it may be very very extreme. In normal times we
hope the oscillations are somewhat narrower and as

0:27:38.960,0:27:43.600
we've moved through the pandemic I think this
may resonate with both of your experiences and

0:27:43.600,0:27:48.400
certainly with the leaders and organisations I've
studied, we've seen a lot of learning along the way

0:27:48.400,0:27:52.960
and more refinement in how we're going to move
through this as organisations and as a society.

0:27:54.800,0:27:58.080
And if I can just build on that,
both Tengku's comment about well

0:27:58.080,0:28:03.600
mistakes were made and they naturally are in these
unprecedented circumstances and Marya spoke about

0:28:03.600,0:28:06.880
learning and experimentation, and it
really resonates with a whole host

0:28:06.880,0:28:12.480
of questions we're getting via the chat.
Magdalena I just picked up asking about - well -

0:28:12.480,0:28:17.120
if I paraphrase but what's the error
culture and how do you deal with mistakes

0:28:17.120,0:28:23.200
that also get made by others inevitably within
the organisations, how do you manage those in

0:28:23.200,0:28:28.640
these times of uncertainty? And maybe we can
go back to Tengku first with that but of course I

0:28:28.640,0:28:33.280
would also then later like to hear from Toto, where
obviously some of the mistakes that happen may be

0:28:33.280,0:28:38.720
incredibly public and visible to millions of
people who are watching on the television so

0:28:38.720,0:28:43.360
how are those being being managed, but let's
hear from Tengku first because obviously you

0:28:43.360,0:28:50.960
started this conversation about how we deal with
with mistakes. Thank you Michael, as a leader one

0:28:50.960,0:28:58.880
of the things that I developed very quickly with
the leadership team was to promote and push a

0:28:58.880,0:29:05.760
culture and we really have this documented, we
tell people to speak up. We need as leaders to

0:29:05.760,0:29:12.080
create a space that allows diverse opinions to
be heard because what worked before I think Toto

0:29:12.080,0:29:18.240
started the session of what worked before and what
got us here may not work now and won't get there,

0:29:18.240,0:29:25.680
I think these things will almost always
prompt novel, new approaches solutioning for

0:29:25.680,0:29:32.080
problems that we've never encountered before so
speaking up must now be a readily available and

0:29:32.080,0:29:38.160
practiced culture in Petronas and we're trying
to push it day in and day out. The second of course

0:29:38.160,0:29:45.360
is the courage to act. How do I do this
without besmirching the industry? The oil and

0:29:45.360,0:29:50.800
gas industry is probably characterised by making
multi-billion dollar investments, yielding

0:29:50.800,0:29:55.920
hundreds and thousands of barrels of production
from a given location and there's very little room

0:29:55.920,0:30:03.040
for error, so we are probably probably very much
without casting any aspersions to

0:30:03.040,0:30:10.400
any one profession, we're very much an engineering
and innovation led industry so we love checklists,

0:30:11.040,0:30:18.960
thousands of checklists and we like to make sure
every t's crossed and i's dotted before we move on

0:30:18.960,0:30:24.480
and make a decision because there's billions at
risk capital is at stake and of course you can't

0:30:24.480,0:30:31.120
go wrong, any environmental impact would be
disastrous so in a time like this where you're

0:30:31.120,0:30:36.240
forced to respond to customer centricity around
your product and what you bring to the market, that

0:30:36.240,0:30:42.160
the need for experimenting as Marya has mentioned
earlier is just going to be far more often and far

0:30:42.160,0:30:48.880
more rapid, therefore our staff need to have the
ability and the ownership and the courage to act

0:30:48.880,0:30:53.040
and that's what I encourage across the entire team
in Petronas right now. There's got to be a very

0:30:53.040,0:31:00.400
strong departure from the old hierarchical way of
approaching problems and concerns and challenges,

0:31:00.400,0:31:06.800
you've got to get to a solution space quickly, test
it, validate it, move to scaling it up and you can't

0:31:06.800,0:31:13.760
wait and in this kind of volatile swing
that Marya alluded to, this need has never been

0:31:13.760,0:31:21.200
more pronounced. Okay thank you Toto, let's
hear from you on the management of

0:31:21.920,0:31:27.280
learning experimentation but as I say sometimes
also very public mistakes that are being made.

0:31:28.720,0:31:37.040
First of all I must say that hearing 
Tengku Taufik's ... empower, about empowerment

0:31:37.040,0:31:43.120
and about speaking up shows how aligned we are
as organisations and in our 10-year partnership

0:31:43.920,0:31:52.320
we very much follow that philosophy, we have 
one motto that we kind of try to make everybody

0:31:52.880,0:31:59.920
in the company to live it, day in
and day out, and this is 'say it, see it, fix it', you

0:31:59.920,0:32:04.080
are allowed to speak up, actually if you
don't you're harming the organisation,

0:32:04.720,0:32:12.160
and that is something that may seem trivial
of course you need to speak up but you need to

0:32:12.160,0:32:17.760
create the environment for this to happen and not
only put it on a powerpoint and project it on the

0:32:17.760,0:32:24.640
wall, and the empower part, the empowerment
and creating that safe environment

0:32:24.640,0:32:29.840
means that people are not afraid of losing their
jobs, they are not afraid of taking risks because

0:32:29.840,0:32:38.080
risks mean also innovation but rather have a
space and an environment where they can thrive and

0:32:38.640,0:32:45.680
we have very much worked so hard over all these
years and to achieve a situation where we have

0:32:45.680,0:32:50.480
a collective organisation that is able to bring
their inputs and their innovation to the table

0:32:51.440,0:32:58.240
through the hierarchies. The head of department
must not be worried if one of the workers below him

0:32:59.360,0:33:03.840
presents something to a manager high up
that he feels is the right person to

0:33:03.840,0:33:10.320
talk to, obviously with always having
somebody having his direct manager in copy

0:33:10.320,0:33:15.920
but no problem to move through
the hierarchies and I think this is extremely

0:33:15.920,0:33:21.040
important and it starts with the leaders. I
remember when I first joined the team in 2013

0:33:21.600,0:33:28.320
we have this big debriefing on Monday morning, it's
the 50 top managers that come together after a race

0:33:28.880,0:33:34.960
to debrief on the race weekend and it starts
with myself and it ends with myself and how

0:33:34.960,0:33:40.480
I started my first ever debriefing was to say
what I didn't do well that weekend and that I

0:33:41.280,0:33:45.280
interfered into the strategy call at
not the opportune time during the race

0:33:45.840,0:33:50.240
and that I had a discussion on future
regulations with the governing body

0:33:50.240,0:33:55.520
and I don't think I got it right, and I saw the
surprise of the people in their eyes that 

0:33:56.080,0:34:03.200
that it started that way but over time it
became really ingrained in the organisation and

0:34:03.200,0:34:08.560
when you listen to a debrief today after a weekend
where we finished first and second you would think

0:34:08.560,0:34:15.680
that this is Williams debriefing from the weekend
or on a tenth place and I don't mean that in an

0:34:15.680,0:34:21.600
arrogant way it's just a culture that is
always skeptical, we always believe we're just

0:34:21.600,0:34:27.280
not good enough, we have to stay on our toes in
order to maintain that success and that start with

0:34:28.320,0:34:38.880
going sometimes where it hurts but
they say that if you don't go there

0:34:39.760,0:34:44.080
then you're not going to improve as
an organisation and it needs to start with

0:34:44.080,0:34:52.240
with all of those leading organisations. Toto,
you've been reflecting on what we talk about in

0:34:52.240,0:34:57.920
in organisational behaviour and leadership work as
a culture of psychological safety and a culture of

0:34:57.920,0:35:03.920
learning and we've also heard this from Tengku
and I'd like to pull out a few of the really

0:35:03.920,0:35:09.040
important insights that we've heard across both
of your last few comments around how to create

0:35:09.040,0:35:15.680
that kind of culture and most importantly how to
build it so that it's in complement to - rather than

0:35:15.680,0:35:20.960
at the expense of - performance and accountability
and I think we could see that very clearly Toto

0:35:20.960,0:35:26.400
and what you were just talking about that 
drive to learn and to improve is in the service

0:35:26.400,0:35:31.840
of performance, it's not a way to allow
people to make mistakes and let them off the hook

0:35:31.840,0:35:36.160
and that has to be the way in which these kinds
of learning cultures are built that people

0:35:36.160,0:35:42.320
feel comfortable in their teams, in their groups,
speaking up saying when they made a mistake when,

0:35:42.320,0:35:47.120
there was a near mistake that might not actually
have ever been noticed but it's an opportunity

0:35:47.120,0:35:54.080
to learn and to adapt our processes and that that
is an a chance to improve performance rather than

0:35:54.080,0:35:59.680
again to let people off the hook, and so this is
a very tricky balance to strike between learning

0:35:59.680,0:36:04.080
and performance or learning and accountability and
we've heard in both of your comments the ways in

0:36:04.080,0:36:08.640
which that sounds very much like what you have
tried to do and to build in your organisations,

0:36:08.640,0:36:13.600
and of course in this past year in particular
it's been especially especially critical.

0:36:15.600,0:36:20.800
Well we're already more than halfway through
our time so quick moment to welcome all of those

0:36:20.800,0:36:26.560
of you who joined us in the meantime for
this Leadership in Extraordinary Times session

0:36:26.560,0:36:32.960
discussing how to sustain success through
adversity, I'm joined by Toto Wolff - team principal

0:36:32.960,0:36:40.000
of Mercedes-AMG Petronas Formula One team -
Tengku Taufik - the CEO and President of Petronas -

0:36:40.000,0:36:45.280
as well as my colleague, Professor Marya Basharov
who is Professor of Organisations and Impact here

0:36:45.280,0:36:51.760
at Oxford Saïd. Now we spent the first half
hour discussing largely the past season and

0:36:51.760,0:36:58.560
the winning streak that both Toto, Tengku and their
organisations have enjoyed together in partnership,

0:36:58.560,0:37:03.360
we heard about the crucibles of leadership,
stepping into leadership positions during times

0:37:03.360,0:37:10.320
of adversity, and we want to advance now thinking
about some of the broader questions, beyond the

0:37:10.320,0:37:15.360
personal leadership leading the teams but also
obviously thinking about the leader's role in

0:37:15.360,0:37:22.080
affecting their industry such as Formula One or
the petrochemical industry more broadly but before

0:37:22.080,0:37:26.480
we get there, I'm just really intrigued to pass on
one of the questions that has been raised in the

0:37:26.480,0:37:31.920
chat now multiple times actually, Muhammad
- I think - was the first one to come out, what's

0:37:31.920,0:37:37.200
the question you would like to ask each other or
what's a leadership trait that you've witnessed in

0:37:37.200,0:37:41.920
each other that you'd like to emulate even though
I think you've actually never met in person today?

0:37:44.560,0:37:49.840
Tengku Taufil

0:37:52.080,0:38:00.560
and I never met in person because when he was when
he joined the board as a chief executive officer

0:38:02.400,0:38:09.600
COVID struck and we have
had many conversations over video calls or

0:38:09.600,0:38:16.720
on the telephone but it's just a pleasure
to see a person leading one of the most

0:38:16.720,0:38:20.880
one of the most important organisations for
ourselves, because Petronas is not only a

0:38:20.880,0:38:26.720
marketing partner, Petronas is also a fuel and oil
supplier and that is a real competitive advantage

0:38:26.720,0:38:30.640
that we have in terms of lap time
having such a similar mindset

0:38:31.600,0:38:39.200
like myself, and the question I
would have for you, Tengku, is

0:38:39.200,0:38:47.040
how can you make sure that your messaging and your
culture and your vision for the company is really

0:38:47.040,0:38:55.520
cascaded down into the organisation
because we as leaders- it's easier to

0:38:55.520,0:39:01.200
communicate directly with your direct reports
and people that are not somehow struck

0:39:03.360,0:39:10.000
in front of you - they obviously met you, 
they know you're

0:39:10.000,0:39:15.440
just a human being as themselves - but how
can you make sure that the people underneath

0:39:16.000,0:39:22.800
the the managers underneath really transcend
the same kind of mentality that they allow

0:39:23.440,0:39:30.640
their people to speak up and obviously in a vast
organisation like Petronas, multinational,

0:39:31.760,0:39:34.480
 how can you make sure that
this is actually happening?

0:39:37.440,0:39:45.360
You pulled that one out of the bag Toto, wow
great question, let me just recount what I did.

0:39:45.360,0:39:51.360
So this is easily something I can
recount because it's how I responded to this

0:39:51.360,0:39:58.720
role in a time of crisis, within my first three
to five days I reached out and had very open

0:39:58.720,0:40:05.120
conversations with my immediate contemporaries, the
executive leadership team, not very long after that

0:40:05.120,0:40:12.560
I reached out to the immediate level below them, with
both I kept my message quite simple and consistent;

0:40:14.240,0:40:21.360
we're in this together there is a
purpose that binds us, I'll make mistakes,

0:40:22.960,0:40:29.120
I'll need you to tell me if I'm making
mistakes and I'm also going to ask you

0:40:29.920,0:40:36.560
why you're doing what you're doing, and in
those engagements I think the sense was

0:40:37.360,0:40:43.920
let's drop our titles at the door, so that's your
immediate leadership circle, after that it's been

0:40:44.480,0:40:54.560
communicate, communicate, communicate. It is now 9.41
pm in KL and I actually like doing this outreach

0:40:54.560,0:41:02.640
with people like yourselves as partners
and stakeholders but I've done this far far more

0:41:02.640,0:41:08.400
many times throughout this pandemic and this is
one of those things that when a crisis presents an

0:41:08.400,0:41:15.600
opportunity even the platforms that are available
to us that's how you get through, you make time,

0:41:16.320,0:41:24.000
you spend the hour and a half speaking to groups
of 30/40/200 people, you reach out, understand

0:41:24.000,0:41:30.240
their worries, understand their concerns because
everybody was scared, everybody was scared and it's

0:41:30.240,0:41:35.840
 it's just our job to remind them that we are
united in purpose and in Petronas that purpose

0:41:36.560,0:41:43.600
is not money or profits, the purpose is to become
a progressive energy and solutions partner

0:41:44.160,0:41:50.080
enriching lives for a sustainable future.
Sounds very very idealistic if you hear-

0:41:50.080,0:41:55.280
if you read it for the first time but note
what's missing, we didn't spell out that 

0:41:55.280,0:42:02.240
we're an oil and gas player: we are here to provide
solutions, we're here to affect lives and we damn

0:42:02.240,0:42:08.480
well intend to be relevant for the future, and
notwithstanding how much pain you faced in this

0:42:08.480,0:42:14.240
past year repeating this message and saying it's
painful now but we'll get through this together

0:42:15.280,0:42:22.800
was repeated so many times, not only by me
but by my leadership team that I now have

0:42:22.800,0:42:28.080
come into the habit of calling all my
contemporaries, employees and colleagues

0:42:28.080,0:42:32.400
my brothers and sisters, we're part of a family
here and we've got to survive this together.

0:42:35.920,0:42:40.640
Great thank you very much and now obviously that's
your opportunity then to to return the favour

0:42:40.640,0:42:46.800
to Toto. So one one question I
have to deal with Toto is because of time

0:42:46.800,0:42:54.400
scale right, I deal with decisions that
span investment life cycles which 

0:42:54.400,0:43:01.200
go into the years. When you make your decisions
and you don't have perfect information sets,

0:43:02.480,0:43:08.320
what keeps you going and helps you sleep at night
knowing if you recount the events of the race

0:43:09.120,0:43:12.800
I made the right call there then.
Do you second-guess yourself,

0:43:12.800,0:43:17.840
you see yourself and constantly self-critique,
how do you keep all of that in a bottle and

0:43:17.840,0:43:22.160
keeping it- keep it going for the next race
and the next race the next race after that?

0:43:24.320,0:43:31.600
A very good question also. I think when
you look at our organisations you would say that

0:43:31.600,0:43:38.640
an F1 team is probably more interested
in the short term future but it's not

0:43:38.640,0:43:46.080
quite as simple, because we are part of a group
of stakeholders that define future regulations

0:43:47.120,0:43:52.480
that define the strategy, the long-term strategy,
how do we see the sport in 10 years from now,

0:43:53.600,0:43:56.080
what are the communication channels and the way of

0:43:57.680,0:44:04.000
deploying our content, what kind of technology
do we want to have in our cars in terms of

0:44:04.000,0:44:12.720
sustainable fuels or hybrid engines, electric
propulsion and so I need to balance my time

0:44:12.720,0:44:18.800
between being part of the decision making process
going forward because the platform needs to

0:44:18.800,0:44:25.600
fly and only if we're having fans and audiences
interested in the sport then we as Mercedes

0:44:25.600,0:44:32.240
we can promote what we are doing and then
on the other side is this very short term

0:44:32.240,0:44:38.800
interest where we have a product and that is
the race car and its power unit and how can we

0:44:38.800,0:44:44.880
optimise it and how can we learn from our mistakes.
So I often hear that organisations that are

0:44:45.440,0:44:50.240
public that say it's really difficult for
us to deploy a long-term strategy because

0:44:50.240,0:44:57.360
we need to quarterly report and we need to satisfy
our stakeholders be they analysts or shareholders;

0:44:58.240,0:45:02.960
well in our industry we report 20 times a year
because you're only as good as your last race and

0:45:02.960,0:45:09.200
everybody swings between mania and depression,
if we lose it's the end of the Mercedes era,

0:45:09.200,0:45:16.880
if we win it is the dominant force going
 going forward in the next five years,

0:45:17.600,0:45:24.720
so it is very important to balance between
those two short and long term interest

0:45:24.720,0:45:30.080
of the team, and the short term interest comes
back to what you said before, and that is

0:45:30.080,0:45:36.160
the brutal transparency within the organisation.
We need to be able to learn from our mistakes

0:45:36.720,0:45:42.000
because there is just two options; you make
a mistake you cover it up or you're not in a

0:45:42.000,0:45:48.240
safe place to talk about it, or you utilise that
as an opportunity to actually develop and learn.

0:45:49.280,0:45:55.680
I've heard a sentence that was
'when it stings it sticks'

0:45:56.400,0:46:04.080
so the painful moments in the races are the ones
that make us progress the most, and in that respect

0:46:04.720,0:46:10.320
every weekend is about brutal analysis of what is
happening in the days after the weekend and then

0:46:11.040,0:46:20.160
utilising those learnings for the next race
to come and for the future development of every

0:46:21.040,0:46:32.000
component in the car so it comes back down to this,
to the culture of really being transparent with

0:46:32.000,0:46:40.720
each other because we share the same objective,
creating a safe environment and using the

0:46:40.720,0:46:47.040
power of the collective intelligence of the
people in order to solve the problems.

0:46:49.200,0:46:53.200
And I think you've beautifully set up
the final quarter of our conversation

0:46:53.200,0:46:58.080
the last lap - if you will - talking about,,well,
the imminent performance pressures but also

0:46:58.080,0:47:03.040
the long-term expectations which are obviously
huge for both of your respective industries,

0:47:03.040,0:47:10.240
so thinking about sustainability, CO2 emissions
... pledges, so I'll come to Toto first,

0:47:10.240,0:47:14.960
because obviously Mercedes is a huge name
and Formula One carries some weight, we see

0:47:15.520,0:47:22.480
Challenger series like extreme E, formula E,
Formula One is supposed to be the pinnacle of

0:47:22.480,0:47:28.880
driving technology. So if driving technology
is electric in the future we see the end of

0:47:28.880,0:47:35.920
the combustion engine, is F1 running
out of road? Obviously the two industries that

0:47:35.920,0:47:43.920
we are representing are really at crossroads 
because of the way mobility is changing, going

0:47:43.920,0:47:49.200
forward the oil and gas industry need to think
how to reinvent themselves long term 

0:47:50.160,0:47:56.480
while it's continuing to generate profit and
developing their own organisations too in the

0:47:56.480,0:48:02.640
short and mid term and the same applies to the
auto industry, it is pretty much we're heading

0:48:02.640,0:48:08.400
towards an unknown, we have obviously all these
projections of how electrification is going to

0:48:08.400,0:48:14.080
influence our industries but the same
applies to Formula One, we can never

0:48:16.000,0:48:20.880
we can never behave in a way that - we
are the largest sport in the world and we are

0:48:20.880,0:48:28.160
safe and that's why Challenger series like Extreme
E or Formula E will never actually steal our

0:48:28.160,0:48:36.080
thunder. But in comparison Formula One generates
about 1.5 billion views a year, and none of the

0:48:36.080,0:48:41.280
other series have come anywhere close to it,
Formula E is probably a percent of that and

0:48:41.280,0:48:47.840
Extreme E just had the second race so they
are not they're not visible as it stands, but

0:48:49.040,0:48:56.880
we believe that technology joins entertainment
joins soap is what makes F1 stand out,

0:48:56.880,0:49:05.280
and we need to be proud on our technology.
Looking forward we are in the

0:49:05.280,0:49:13.360
process of developing a new power unit for 2025
and beyond, defining the new fuels, sustainable

0:49:13.360,0:49:20.400
fuels of the future, so technology is absolutely
a must we cannot ignore what is happening in the

0:49:20.400,0:49:27.040
world, we cannot run on 12 cylinder engines just
because we love the sound, it is important to be

0:49:27.040,0:49:34.240
at the very edge of high tech, that's number one.
Number two we need to continue to entertain

0:49:34.800,0:49:41.200
and that is about stories, it's about
personalities, people like to follow people 

0:49:42.160,0:49:49.600
much more than you could say a sports organisation,
we've seen that Netflix that covered a lot of

0:49:49.600,0:49:56.240
the drivers that are not so visible when
you look at the sports, the sports news

0:49:56.880,0:50:04.240
and people are really interested in looking
at the drama and glory of other individuals and

0:50:04.240,0:50:12.000
that is what we really need to have out in 
in our sport and the soap part has always been

0:50:12.000,0:50:17.760
within the DNA of Formula One. There is
a political battle off track, there is a sporting

0:50:17.760,0:50:26.320
battle on track: we provide headlines
over the 12 months of the year and

0:50:26.320,0:50:32.240
and it's a bit of a reality show that has been
created by Bernie Ecclestone and as long as we

0:50:32.240,0:50:39.280
never feel safe in the kind of mentality we
are the biggest with the best invention since

0:50:39.280,0:50:45.440
sliced bread we will stay on our toes, we will
make sure that we learn from Challenger series

0:50:46.480,0:50:51.360
and continue to develop the product 
that is Formula One but I believe we are in a

0:50:51.360,0:50:59.120
great place. When I look at our audiences they
continue to grow over all channels and we just

0:50:59.120,0:51:04.880
we just need to continue to do 
the proper analysis and to do and develop it.

0:51:06.560,0:51:12.320
Yeah if I just play this across to Tengku, then,
and Stephen from Derby raised the question

0:51:12.320,0:51:18.720
what presentations preparations are Mercedes, F1
and Petronas making for the post-internal

0:51:18.720,0:51:24.400
combustion engine world? So given that this
is currently your bread and butter business

0:51:24.400,0:51:28.240
how are you evolving your business and
how do you see that the partnership with

0:51:28.240,0:51:35.840
Mercedes/Formula One evolving into a kind of
less into a carbon dioxide neutral world?

0:51:36.560,0:51:42.480
A lot of analogies there can be drawn, I
think the world of F1 has moved to a hybrid

0:51:43.200,0:51:49.360
power unit and you're looking at a lot of ...
I alluded to the corporations within the energy

0:51:49.360,0:51:56.640
space having to contend with a great reset and
it's the same with us: any oil and gas entity

0:51:57.440,0:52:04.960
is now got to reposition itself very quickly, if
you're in denial of energy transition being here

0:52:04.960,0:52:10.880
and having arrived I think you are going to suffer
what a lot of people have described as the 'boiled

0:52:10.880,0:52:15.520
frog syndrome' - you're thinking everything is all
right and one day the whole industry is going to

0:52:15.520,0:52:23.920
evaporate under you. The trick is to make sure this
transition happens in the most systematic way

0:52:23.920,0:52:31.360
that balances lives and livelihoods and also the
economic interests of the multiple jurisdictions

0:52:31.360,0:52:39.920
contending with energy transition and as an energy
provider and a solutions provider for many many

0:52:39.920,0:52:45.600
people and many many customers across the world
we've got to make this as seamless and as

0:52:45.600,0:52:52.080
painless as possible. It takes a lot of capital to
get to an energy transition, I think the IEA has

0:52:52.640,0:52:58.880
issued a fresh report, we've heard anywhere between
four, four and a half to five trillion dollars of

0:52:58.880,0:53:06.080
renewables investments required every year
to get to the kind of climate targets that

0:53:06.080,0:53:11.360
everyone is collectively aiming for, everybody
knows this, I've come on this on the show on the

0:53:11.360,0:53:17.280
back of a series of debacles which have impacted
the largest oil corporations in the world, we

0:53:17.280,0:53:24.800
have evangelical and activist shareholders pushing
for more energy reform in the boardroom, we are

0:53:24.800,0:53:31.760
looking at distinct energy transition strategies
being propounded by IOCs across the world

0:53:32.480,0:53:39.120
- listed or otherwise. For us our position is
that there is no one pathway to achieving this

0:53:39.120,0:53:44.240
goal, every region will have to contend with it. I
don't want to sound like I'm standing on the soap

0:53:44.240,0:53:49.760
box here but in this corner of the world where the
access to electricity is probably still a fresh

0:53:49.760,0:53:56.160
luxury, earlier this decade, we've got 600 people
600 million people still not having access to

0:53:56.160,0:54:01.360
regular electricity or clean water and that's
just arrived earlier this decade and in parts

0:54:01.360,0:54:08.000
of Africa as well and then you're dealing with a
policy shift that's going to take away a lot of a

0:54:08.000,0:54:14.240
hydrocarbon fueled economies, you're going to have
to plan for a shift. Petronas is well positioned to

0:54:14.240,0:54:19.760
deal with that and there's a lot of lessons that
we take out of F1 - exactly what Toto has mentioned -

0:54:19.760,0:54:26.560
this transition will need to make us work that
other muscle, a little bit stronger, more power

0:54:26.560,0:54:33.280
to the second engine so to speak, the moving away
from the traditional internal combustion reliance

0:54:33.280,0:54:38.400
so for Petronas you got to deal with almost one
part of the business that needs to squeeze out the

0:54:38.400,0:54:44.880
last available power and efficiency as cleanly
as and as cheaply as possible i.e monetising

0:54:44.880,0:54:51.520
your molecules and resources while putting the
clear technology and innovation driven steps

0:54:51.520,0:54:58.640
to take those informed bets and investments
in renewables and that takes a lot of study

0:54:58.640,0:55:04.240
and there are a lot of lessons around efficiency
that we do still continue to benefit from F1 

0:55:05.120,0:55:10.480
trying to condense that all into a short
answer there, I don't know how well I've 

0:55:10.480,0:55:16.480
explained it. Okay thank you. The image of
of exercising that other muscle and and combining

0:55:16.480,0:55:21.440
both the evolutionary change and the revolutionary,
Marya that has your name written all over it.

0:55:22.320,0:55:27.760
Thank you Michael, thank you. Well we've
heard in your last comments Tengku and Toto

0:55:28.400,0:55:34.000
about a third key piece of what we see as
important for leaders in managing these kinds of

0:55:34.000,0:55:39.760
challenges and opportunities that you started off
talking with us about at the start of the hour,

0:55:39.760,0:55:44.000
and in a way we've come full circle now, we're
talking about it in the context of long-term

0:55:44.000,0:55:50.000
sustainability challenges not just the immediate
lives and livelihood tensions of the pandemic,

0:55:50.000,0:55:55.280
and we can see in the comments and we've
discussed already the value of experimenting

0:55:55.280,0:55:58.800
and learning and clearly that's something
that you're doing in your organisations,

0:55:58.800,0:56:05.920
also in your commitment as leaders and in your
organisation's commitment to really both the

0:56:05.920,0:56:12.480
present, the short-term demands and needs of
the organisation and of our world and the

0:56:12.480,0:56:17.840
long-term right and that's in the purpose
and vision that that we heard from each of you

0:56:17.840,0:56:22.560
and that both/and approach is of course really
critical in that commitment coming from the leader,

0:56:22.560,0:56:28.320
but I think the new and really a critical piece
that we can start to pick up in in the most recent

0:56:28.320,0:56:35.360
comments is around how you really set stakes in
the ground to hold yourself to those short-term,

0:56:35.360,0:56:41.600
but especially to the long-term commitments
that aren't the immediate day-to-day but that

0:56:41.600,0:56:46.480
really you need to start addressing and grappling
with now to prepare yourself to the future for

0:56:46.480,0:56:52.880
the future, and interestingly the metaphor that we
use in our work on leadership is one of guard rails,

0:56:52.880,0:56:58.480
that what you need to do as a leader - and of course
very apt in this context - is to set out guard rails

0:56:58.480,0:57:03.680
for yourself and for your organisation to hold
you to both the short term and the long term

0:57:03.680,0:57:09.120
and I think we heard a bit about how, Tengku, you're
doing that in your organisation, and Toto as well,

0:57:09.120,0:57:15.680
and so it's really the trio of the experimenting
and learning that both and the short form and

0:57:15.680,0:57:21.520
the long-term commitment and mindset and then
operationalising by really setting in stone

0:57:21.520,0:57:27.920
whether it's representatives, checkpoints, metrics,
goals, outside stakeholders whose voices you're

0:57:27.920,0:57:33.200
bringing in and who are holding you accountable,
those kinds of guard rails to ensure that the long

0:57:33.200,0:57:38.320
term doesn't just get pushed further and further
out but that you're starting to attend and grapple

0:57:38.320,0:57:45.440
with it. Today I'm mindful that we only have a
few minutes left but obviously a big commitment

0:57:45.440,0:57:50.960
that was being made by the team in the last
season is of course the change in livery in

0:57:50.960,0:57:57.440
response to the Black Lives Matter movement - the
legendary silver arrows now now racing in black,

0:57:57.440,0:58:02.400
a very very strong symbolic commitment - but
of course one that has also been followed up

0:58:03.040,0:58:09.760
by plans between Lewis and and the team to
to drive diversity so beyond this very symbolic

0:58:09.760,0:58:14.960
commitment going forward, Toto, what can
we expect from the team and kind of making

0:58:14.960,0:58:21.360
diversity stick for the future, what are
the more substantive changes that are underfoot

0:58:21.360,0:58:28.640
to make a Formula One more diverse? Within the
team we certainly had a big advantage in terms of

0:58:29.440,0:58:35.840
learning of the struggles that 
Lewis has encountered in his life but in a way

0:58:36.720,0:58:45.600
it all started with the Black Lives Matter
movement and the idea that was born to

0:58:45.600,0:58:51.120
change the livery was just the starting point
and what I've seen in the organisation

0:58:51.120,0:58:55.840
that is that we took it really seriously,
it couldn't end with the PR

0:58:57.120,0:59:05.120
stunt of painting the car black. Having said
that, painting a silver arrow that is the

0:59:05.120,0:59:09.840
colour of Mercedes since since the beginning
black is quite a it's quite a statement and

0:59:10.640,0:59:18.160
I must really say that when the idea
was born not only the Mercedes board was 

0:59:18.160,0:59:24.560
so approachable about it, but also us calling
calling our partners and Petronas up and

0:59:24.560,0:59:31.760
saying this is a last minute change, are
you up for for a black car and not one gave

0:59:31.760,0:59:36.880
us a hard time on that topic. But obviously the
organisation then or within our organisation we

0:59:36.880,0:59:42.960
said we can't just leave it at that, we need to be
serious, we need to commit resources in order to

0:59:43.840,0:59:50.320
bring really meaningful change, and what we've
done in coordination with Lewis we've created a

0:59:50.320,0:59:58.640
joint foundation that is aiming to really
increase the diversity within our organisations,

0:59:59.280,1:00:08.480
we have institutionalised that project by giving
it a name that is Accelerate 2025, where we aim

1:00:09.200,1:00:16.560
to hire at least 25 percent of all new
applicants and starters in our organisation from

1:00:16.560,1:00:22.640
diverse backgrounds and underprivileged backgrounds.
We have a cooperation with the Mulberry Trust

1:00:23.840,1:00:31.760
that has that manages of schools
in underprivileged areas of London to

1:00:31.760,1:00:39.360
encourage and inspires inspire pupils to join the
industry. A programme that is called Stemettes, where

1:00:40.160,1:00:43.280
the women in our organisation mentor young

1:00:44.400,1:00:50.640
younger children in school and to show them
about the opportunities that exist around STEM

1:00:51.600,1:00:59.120
and all of that is really with the aim
of not only leaving it as a marketing

1:00:59.760,1:01:05.520
action with the black car
but really following up and being the industry

1:01:05.520,1:01:13.760
leader and in diversity and setting new standards,
because like Lewis obliged us to act, we are

1:01:13.760,1:01:19.840
obliging all the other teams and F1 and
the FA - the governing body - to act and follow us.

1:01:21.440,1:01:26.480
Okay for closing comments then Tengku,
what's the partnership between Mercedes and

1:01:26.480,1:01:31.840
and Petronas going to look like off track?
Obviously you have a supreme track

1:01:31.840,1:01:38.320
record on track, how are you going to engage
together in these kind of broader questions around

1:01:38.320,1:01:43.680
sustainability, diversity and the big questions
that lie ahead of both of your respective

1:01:43.680,1:01:52.000
organisations? Diversity and sustainability
is an inescapable requirement as you deal with

1:01:52.000,1:01:57.840
the variety of challenges and it only serves to
enrich and strengthen every organisation and

1:01:57.840,1:02:04.720
I'm not just reading that out of a piece of paper,
I sincerely believe that. I think you 

1:02:04.720,1:02:09.360
have the need for diversity in order to promote
sustainability because the diversity of ideas is

1:02:09.360,1:02:16.480
what's going to propel you into new innovative
spaces as Toto has also very clearly alluded to,

1:02:16.480,1:02:23.200
and I think just continuing on to on what Toto
had mentioned earlier, it is not just branding or

1:02:23.200,1:02:28.560
it's not just livery: when you make a stand on
diversity and sustainability, you have to follow

1:02:28.560,1:02:35.680
through because it really just presents what
you stand for, we've seen - I think Toto knows

1:02:35.680,1:02:41.680
of course - Stephanie Travis
works as a trackside fluid engineer, I'm

1:02:41.680,1:02:49.040
just literally probably about 600 700 meters away
from our fluid technology solutions HQ here in KL,

1:02:49.040,1:02:55.200
of course it's nighttime, the teams
here worked hand in glove with with a team in

1:02:55.200,1:03:01.840
in Bridgeworth to make sure that we get these
new innovative solutions and it is a diversity of

1:03:01.840,1:03:07.840
ideas that's going to get you past this very very
challenging period. So a lot of lessons that we've

1:03:07.840,1:03:14.000
taken out of this have been now replicated,
we're changing out leadership, we're moving away

1:03:14.000,1:03:21.360
from the preconceived notion that ladies can't
do what what they're expected to do in the oil and

1:03:21.360,1:03:26.960
gas industry. I think if anyone visits our website
you can see that a lot of those stereotypes have

1:03:26.960,1:03:33.200
been set aside, we've got very very much 
active leadership at all levels by women.

1:03:33.200,1:03:39.920
We're a family of 48 000 staff
constituting people from Canada, Mexico, Brazil

1:03:40.720,1:03:49.120
in South Africa as well as a large part of
the Southeast Asian geography so we do have this

1:03:49.120,1:03:54.480
diversity of ideas and they've reached leadership
levels inside Petronas and long may it continue.

1:03:56.160,1:04:01.680
Thank you very much and that does take us to the
chequered flag. Apologies to many of you who've

1:04:01.680,1:04:07.200
posted fascinating questions in the chat,
sorry that we did not get to all of you - as

1:04:07.200,1:04:12.720
I'm sure you all understand the excitement and
Formula One and some of the challenges lying ahead

1:04:12.720,1:04:19.440
probably take a lot more than one hour to
uncover - so what's left for me is to remind

1:04:19.440,1:04:24.000
you that of course you can re-watch today's 
session of Leadership in Extraordinary Times

1:04:24.000,1:04:30.640
online but please also do join us on june 15th in 
two weeks time when the next subject of Leadership

1:04:30.640,1:04:37.200
in Extraordinary Times is the regenerative 
economy. At this point thank you very much to all

1:04:37.200,1:04:43.280
the panelists: many many thanks Marya Basharov, 
many thanks Tengku Taufik, many thanks Toto Wolff.

1:04:43.280,1:04:53.840
Enjoy the rest of the day and see you again in two 
weeks time for Leadership in Extraordinary Times.

1:05:18.320,1:05:18.820