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A very good morning, afternoon, or evening to all
and a very warm welcome to everybody joining us

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today for the second webinar in the Smart
Space series on the theme of space identity,

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skilled work, and the professions. I'm Eamonn Molloy,
a faculty member at Pembroke College and the Saïd

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Business School at the University of Oxford. I'd
like to thank the Saïd Business School, Pembroke

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College, and the aeronautical society of the
University of Oxford for supporting this event.

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To our online audience we welcome your questions
throughout and we kindly ask that you post them

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in the chat function of your chosen platform
including your name and where you're located

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please. There'll be about 20 minutes or so for Q and
A later in the session. The aim of this series is

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to foster conversation and dialogue about how
space is changing from old space to new space

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and to identify the social, economic, political, and
ethical challenges that arise from this transition.

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Space is often seen as the domain of scientists,
technologists, and a few powerful nation-states,

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but this is changing rapidly as commercial space
activities and applications become a reality.

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This is more than just headline stunts by
people like Elon Musk: it's a rapidly emerging

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market currently worth hundreds of billions of
dollars globally. The implications of this for

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the funding of scientific exploration missions
that don't always necessarily deliver a direct

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financial return on investment are potentially
profound; likewise the nature and the scale of

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the demand for a skilled space workforce has only
recently become a topic of discussion. New space

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will require not only scientists and technologists
but also lawyers, finance professionals, ethicists

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among others to explore these challenges.
With us today we're very privileged to have

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a distinguished panel of eminently experienced and
qualified speakers to offer their views. These are

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Catherine Mealing-Jones, Director of Growth at the
UK Space Agency. Catherine leads on the UK Space

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Agency's goal of growing the UK space sector.
She leads the development of new users,

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new applications, new technologies, and a new
attitude to the use of space in order to grow

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the space sector. Catherine and the team are
responsible for sector and industrial strategy

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for delivering government input to development of
Earth observation, telecommunications applications

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technology, and standards of working through
this through the European Space Agency

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nationally and internationally, she's also
responsible for providing the conditions to

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enable the development of regional and local
clusters including the UK space gateway at

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Harwell in Oxford and ensuring that the benefits
of space reach all parts of the United Kingdom,

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Catherine is a chartered public finance accountant,
a lay member of council at the University of Bath

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and a fellow of the Royal Aeronautical Society.
Frank White, our second guest, is an author, a

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graduate of Harvard College and a Rhodes
Scholar, he ended MFIL in politics from New

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College in Oxford, so welcome back Frank. Frank's
best known book 'Overview Effect: Space Exploration

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and Human Evolution' is considered by many to be
a seminal work in the field of space exploration;

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the fourth edition of 'The Overview Effect' will
be published in 2021 by Multiverse Publishing,

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a film called 'Overview' based on his work
has had more than 8 million plays on Vimeo.

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Frank conducted a series of interviews with
astronauts at Johnson Space Center in June of 2019

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which have now become the basis for
NASA's series called Down to Earth,

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which is available on Youtube and other NASA
social media platforms. In his latest book 'The

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Cosma hypothesis: implications of the Overview Effect',
Frank poses the fundamental question, what is the

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purpose of human space exploration? Why has the
evolutionary process brought humanity to the

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brink of becoming a space-faring species? 
He also shares the idea of the human space programme

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as a central project that will engage a wide range
of people in the process of exploring the universe.

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Frank also teaches at Harvard
Extension School, Harvard Summer School,

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Boston University's Metropolitan College and the
Kepler Space Institute. Last but not least,

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we'd like to welcome Sam Adlan. Sam is the chief
strategy officer for the Satellite Applications

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Catapult; he's responsible for developing a
strategy that best supports UK space sector

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growth, working with the world-class academic base,
and supporting development of the next generation

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of high-growth business. Following a PhD in remote
sensing and working on NASA Mars mission, Sam

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joined the Vega Group as a consultant focusing on
satellite applications; from there he held senior

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space sector strategy roles in Finn Mechanical,
started and successfully exited a startup in the

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logistics sector and was lead technologist for
space at Innovate UK (the UK's innovation agency).

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Sam holds a Master's in Physics and a DPhil
from Oxford University as well as an

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MBA focused on innovation and entrepreneurship
from Imperial College London. This panel will be

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delighted to take your questions as I mentioned
earlier, which you can post in the chat at any time.

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The format will be that our panelists
will each take turns to respond to two

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prompt questions that I will offer, after which
I'll open up the floor for 20 minutes or so

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for audience Q and A. So without further
ado, my first question to the panel is

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how will the role of existing space agencies such
as the UK Space Agency, NASA, the European Space

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Agency, Jaxa etc change as a consequence of the
rising interest and investment in the commercial

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space sector? In particular will these changes have
an effect on the amount and the kind of scientific

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research space missions? I'd
like to start with Catherine please.

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Thanks Simon and thanks everyone, delighted
to be part of the panel this afternoon.

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I think the first thing I'd say is that all the
agencies you mentioned are pretty different

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and continue to evolve and change for reasons that
are nothing to do with commercial space, some

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changes in the UK at the moment which are driven
by a need to kind of centralise the government

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approach to space for example and I think
new players and new partnerships are happening

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between agencies and the commercial sector all the
time, seeing the rise of actors that aren't space

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agencies but are very institutional. In Europe
we have the European Commission - for example - which

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is taking an increasing role in commercial space
and space entrepreneurship, so I think I take

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the question as a bit of a proxy for overall
institutional and commercial commercial space.

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So we've seen some interesting relationships
develop over the last decade or so between, for

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example, NASA and the commercial sector, where
there's been a lot of sort of a tenancy activity,

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but I think this sort of anchor tenancy
model will probably go a bit of a step further

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and we'll increasingly see more innovative ways
of space agencies and other actors procuring 

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things on commercial frameworks, I see government, I
think, increasingly getting involved in the venture

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area, I think given the high risks in space in
the UK - for example - organisations like the British

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business bank making investments in organisations
which are concerned with venture capital. So I

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think overall, I think the institutions when
it comes to scientific exploration, set

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the road map and deliver some of the backbone
infrastructure, for example things like 

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long-range missions and series of missions
and then they can innovate around that and 

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fill in the gaps to a kind of broad blueprint
which will be set by the space agencies and by

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by the government side. So I think government
will do over the next 10 years more R&D

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and innovation stimulation. I think
the insitutional side will pull in more

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adjacent sectors and we see that more and more, I
think the activity of the commercial sector will

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mean that the institutional side will do more to
set the rules and norms of behavior in space 

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and I think that the government side will focus
more in the thinking of infrastructure, deep space

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infrastructure, for example communications,
navigation space, domain awareness, those

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those kind of things. I think you might
see institutional players going more to 

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the special side, into the discovery side, so more
university collaborations or prestige missions

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which may or may not draw on commercial activity. So
I think there's a real scientific

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exploration given the overall financial
situation at the world within the need for

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is to show the value the citizen, whether this
will test itself in more communications around

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scientific missions and the broader benefits they
bring, or a different mix of programmatic so that

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we see a sort of complement to some
of the science missions being more real-world

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applications, I think we'll see that you
need to flow, so I think continuing evolution,

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but I think we'll see the agencies
continue to evolve for a variety of reasons

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and that continue to evolve and change in
ways that we probably can't protect.

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That's great, thank you Catherine, fascinating,
so I think now we'll turn to Frank for

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his response. Thank you okay, thank you Eamonn, it's
great to be here with such a distinguished

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panel and virtually to be back at Oxford, it's
wonderful to at least have a feeling of being

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back at Oxford. Once again, I'm going
to focus on NASA and the US experience

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because that's what I know the most about, I
agree with everything Catherine has said and

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she did a very nice job of covering the
overview, if you will, of the global picture.

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NASA has been affected by the
rise of commercial space activity;

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however it didn't come out of the blue, NASA's
been pretty involved in making it happen.

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After years of resisting new actors coming
into the arena, NASA began to change around 2006

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with the Commercial Orbital Transportation
Services programme - quite a mouthful - also known as

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COTS, they had always worked with the big aerospace
companies, NASA really doesn't build rockets

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it does contracts with others to do that but it
was a breakthrough to start working with unknown

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entities like SpaceX and Kistler Aerospace
and others who we don't hear about anymore,

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but that was really the beginning and
I think it's important to look at the

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American experience and understand that this
kind of public private partnership is within

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the tradition of railroads
airlines, even the internet where the government

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takes the lead and then eventually begins to turn
over much of the activity to the private sector,

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and so in my own mind that is what
is happening today with NASA, SpaceX

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Blue Origin and other entities, and it's a
symbiotic relationship when it works well,

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everybody is really impressed with SpaceX today
and what they've accomplished which is remarkable

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including reusability and
bringing down the cost of launch

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but they couldn't have done it without NASA, and
I don't think Elon Musk would deny that. Of course,

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government got in his way at certain points but
overall the relationship has been positive and

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he's now repaid that early investment by
creating a spacecraft that has not only

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resupplied the International Space Station but
has now sent astronauts there. NASA has also said

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if you want to pay the price you can send your
own people there and Axiom Space is paying 55

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million dollars per person to do just
that on a mission that'll take place next year.

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Tom Cruise has even talked about making a
film on the ISS so we're seeing these changes,

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I think it's going to continue, it's
going to evolve as Catherine put it.

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NASA is still doing some things the way
they've always done it and Artemis is that

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kind of programme even though there are some
private sector engagements in that programme,

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How is it going to affect science?
My sources tell me not very much,

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there's not going to be in the United States a
lot of private science missions - maybe small ones -

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but I believe we can look ahead and see science
and space science be funded by the government

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which I think is appropriate and I think
that will continue, especially the big missions,

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NASA is going to play a big role there. Finally
I would say I think it depends as much on politics

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as anything else. We have this situation where
a new administration tends to rethink our space

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activities, every time a new administration comes
in so Donald Trump moved everybody away from

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climate change and Joe Biden is moving everybody
back, and whoever might get elected next time

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might have their own ideas about where NASA
should go, especially in scientific arena.

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I will just leave with one
question, this symbiotic relationship

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I think will be tested around Moon missions
and Mars missions and we'll just see, 

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I don't hear Elon Musk cooperating with
anybody on his vision of going to Mars,

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he seems to be pretty intent on doing that
himself so for now I'll leave it at that, but 

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I think that's what's happening and that's where
it's going. Perfect. Thank you very much, Frank, some

0:17:27.600,0:17:32.880
really provocative thoughts there which hopefully
we'll be able to follow up on shortly so, and

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next to Sam up to you. Thanks Eamonn,
I mean as both Frank and Catherine have

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noted, the space sector's changing rapidly at the
moment and it's been through several phases of 

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of evolution so and the role of agencies has
sort of adapted over time through those phases,

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you had sort of the 1960s and inspiration off to
the moon and space agencies being technically very

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strong aspects of policy and regulation, you've
then got this early commercialisation phase with

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new businesses offering satellite communications,
earth observation etc so the the agency's starting

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to enable that and supporting
aspects there and then most recently we've

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had this sort of democratisation phase and the
sort of commercialisation of space with lots of

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entrepreneurs, things like small satellites and
space agencies looking to support in areas like

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entrepreneurship, innovation, commercialisation
new applications etc and as I think, particularly

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Frank alluded to, the role of the agencies as
has really shifted there over time, 

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and it's moving always to the point where
government is doing the hard stuff and leaving

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industry to then commercialise and it's
particularly pertinent now where a lot of

0:19:00.880,0:19:06.000
the agencies are saying low Earth orbit is 
for industry, come on industry, come and commercialise the

0:19:06.000,0:19:13.280
lower orbit, we're off to the space gateway, the
moon and and Mars. I think, arguably, the Spacex

0:19:13.280,0:19:20.240
is actually entering a next wave of innovation
and growth focused on the ability to build big

0:19:20.240,0:19:26.560
infrastructure in space through robotics and
and AI, through assembly and manufacturing

0:19:26.560,0:19:31.520
and that's really quite deep implications for
the role of space agencies, I think, because

0:19:32.800,0:19:37.920
space already touches lots of different sectors,
we're all - many of us - are familiar with the fact

0:19:37.920,0:19:42.480
that through communications and observation
you touch health and agriculture and transport.

0:19:43.200,0:19:48.160
Well with where the sector might be going in the
next 10 to 20 years you might have things like

0:19:48.160,0:19:54.240
power from space, your energy coming towards space,
you might be developing drugs in the microgravity

0:19:54.240,0:19:58.240
environment, more people might be going to
space, you've got health coming towards space,

0:19:58.960,0:20:03.040
you've got then sort of the transportation
side of things, obviously, with people

0:20:03.040,0:20:07.040
needing to need to move about and then
construction. So you've got all these different

0:20:07.680,0:20:14.720
aspects and sectors, most sectors over time
will touch space, and that means that

0:20:14.720,0:20:20.160
lots of different government bodies touch space
so the role of space agencies and how they

0:20:20.160,0:20:28.000
evolve is quite interesting in terms of which
bits the space agency keeps hold of versus other

0:20:28.000,0:20:32.160
bits of the government covering them and,
I mean, Catherine touched on 

0:20:32.720,0:20:36.640
some of the developments 
that we're seeing in the UK and

0:20:36.640,0:20:41.600
there's no right or wrong about this, and it'd be
interesting to see which countries bundle which

0:20:41.600,0:20:47.840
functions in with the core space
functions. I'm certainly really keen that actually

0:20:49.280,0:20:53.120
looking at the exam question from the economic
development perspective is something that's kept

0:20:53.120,0:20:58.160
very close to to space agencies, I think
that's something that can really bring

0:20:58.880,0:21:04.480
industry, government, research, security all
together to really have these sort of public

0:21:04.480,0:21:09.360
private partnerships at scale that
Frank's really talked about, I think it's a

0:21:09.360,0:21:13.760
really exciting time. So in terms of the question
then around scientific missions, well,

0:21:15.440,0:21:20.480
there's definitely going to be a continued
need for this fundamental planetary and

0:21:20.480,0:21:25.760
planetary research and astronomy etc but
because of the way it's developing, actually

0:21:25.760,0:21:30.560
I'm quite excited, I think we're actually going
to see industry and research coming much closer

0:21:30.560,0:21:37.040
together and having aligned objectives around
things like how we can live or work on the moon

0:21:37.040,0:21:42.640
in the cis lunar environment, so
actually I think that we're probably going to

0:21:42.640,0:21:49.360
see more funding for scientific missions but
that they might be actually more overlapped

0:21:49.360,0:21:55.200
with perhaps what industry
might also want, so I think the ability for

0:21:56.480,0:22:00.880
industry and research to work together to really
create something compelling that really propels

0:22:00.880,0:22:05.440
the industry forward and delivers benefits
with an even greater scale is really 

0:22:05.440,0:22:12.720
quite exciting. That's fantastic, thank
you Sam, thank you Frank, thank you Catherine.

0:22:12.720,0:22:19.600
You paint a very rich picture between you 
from an organisation theory or a sociological

0:22:19.600,0:22:24.640
point of view this is, as you all said, an
exciting and fascinating time, there's all sorts of

0:22:24.640,0:22:30.000
new relationships, new partnerships, new challenges
to institutions and organisations and their roles.

0:22:30.560,0:22:37.520
Lots of opportunities in there clearly as well
as lots of challenges, I think for public private

0:22:37.520,0:22:45.200
scientific research institutions and while
I think Frank's point about this being

0:22:45.200,0:22:52.720
within the tradition of these government
and industry research university partnerships,

0:22:52.720,0:22:56.720
I do wonder whether this is something
that is quantitatively and qualitatively different.

0:22:57.280,0:23:04.400
It's an interesting question but the picture
particularly Catherine painted of the

0:23:04.400,0:23:10.960
uncertainty around how that's all going to pan out,
and also Sam that you alluded to raises a

0:23:10.960,0:23:15.120
lot of excitement but potentially introduces
some kind of risk; it's certainly not a

0:23:15.120,0:23:21.040
clear-cut picture anyway in terms of old
space, new space and the big institutional actors

0:23:21.600,0:23:26.960
and new spin-offs and startups so that richness
of those interactions and the complexity of that

0:23:26.960,0:23:33.040
ecosystem that you describe is really fascinating.
So thank you, that was your first exam question.

0:23:35.200,0:23:40.560
The next one, I think would be 
what does the future labour market

0:23:40.560,0:23:45.120
for space professionals and skills look like
and what are the opportunities and challenges

0:23:45.120,0:23:50.320
that you see in this regard? Because the picture
that you've just described, all that complexity

0:23:50.320,0:23:55.120
implies lots of new people, like it's not just the
rocket scientists and the administrators any more,

0:23:55.120,0:23:59.520
it's business people and lawyers so how do
you see that shaping, how do you see that skills

0:23:59.520,0:24:04.880
matrix if you like opening up?
Catherine first, please.

0:24:07.520,0:24:10.480
Thank you, 
so hopefully

0:24:11.760,0:24:19.280
I think we've established
that you need - policy makers and democrats -

0:24:19.280,0:24:27.200
you need law, you need educators, you even
need artists to communicate to people,

0:24:27.200,0:24:33.040
so there's a really broad
way of skills, I think that's kind of set

0:24:34.000,0:24:40.560
in the UK we've just ... skills,
anyone wants to find it's on the gov.uk

0:24:42.320,0:24:49.360
website and it very much dovetails with a look
at dilution in the sector that we've also done

0:24:49.360,0:24:54.960
which either has just been published or is
about to be published, I think a

0:24:54.960,0:24:59.760
few sort of key things came out of that one. One 
was about the kind of the intersection of future

0:24:59.760,0:25:04.880
skills that are going to be needed, probably
this isn't a big surprise but as in any

0:25:06.160,0:25:11.040
sector you need the sort
of hard technical skills, whatever

0:25:11.040,0:25:17.280
technical skills they are, and you need the
softest business development skills and

0:25:17.280,0:25:23.360
the ability to bring on the future workforce
within the workforce that already exists which

0:25:23.360,0:25:32.160
brings its challenges. I think we have
a pipeline of people to come into

0:25:32.160,0:25:41.040
the sector. Again, I'm speaking ...
and again in a very international,

0:25:41.600,0:25:47.520
our space cluster at Harwell - there are
literally dozens of needs represented there

0:25:47.520,0:25:52.880
and that's that sort of vibrant
inclusiveness of the sector, is very much a feature

0:25:54.400,0:26:00.240
and I think that's become much more difficult
for changes in our relationship

0:26:00.240,0:26:05.360
with the European Union, but for
other reasons - the current crisis as well -

0:26:06.640,0:26:11.680
and what we're seeing is that 
actually wages being a bit driven up and

0:26:11.680,0:26:19.040
people are just poaching skilled people from other
sectors so we challenge in terms of actually expand

0:26:20.080,0:26:27.280
the available pool, fill some of the [__]
so my summary is that I think there's a

0:26:27.280,0:26:32.400
bit of a battle for skipping, there needs to be a
bit more realism about whether people really need

0:26:32.400,0:26:38.160
all the hires that they are going for all the time
or whether actually in the [ __ ] people might

0:26:39.120,0:26:44.000
 bring up and bring on so 
there would be more of a role for training,

0:26:44.000,0:26:52.160
a role for things, other types of apprenticeships,
crucially a much more porous, I think in the

0:26:52.160,0:26:56.560
UK again, we've seen people who've come
into the sector and stayed in the sector

0:26:57.680,0:27:01.200
and I think we're going to have to see
people out of adjacent sectors much

0:27:01.200,0:27:08.320
more readily, I think we need to see
in to develop the future skills sector, much

0:27:08.320,0:27:15.520
more links with education and training and 
much more of an understanding about how

0:27:16.080,0:27:21.360
how [__] changes are going to have
an influence and I think that the 

0:27:22.560,0:27:27.680
COVID crisis and what that mobility is going to
be really challenging and how we exploit different

0:27:27.680,0:27:32.880
ways of bringing people into the workforce is
going to be really interesting. So for all

0:27:32.880,0:27:38.880
those reasons, I think the biggest challenge
is how you look beyond existing networks and

0:27:38.880,0:27:45.680
existing ways of expanding the workforce and
how you really bring in new people with

0:27:45.680,0:27:51.920
new backgrounds and new skills, I think there's a
real kind of full rethink needed actually about

0:27:51.920,0:27:58.480
what that future workforce needs to look like
and what those those skill sets are, and the sector

0:27:59.840,0:28:04.800
needs to get very close to government - the bits
of government that look at future technology

0:28:05.600,0:28:09.520
and universities in particular - to
make sure that universities are there

0:28:11.920,0:28:17.760
opportunities and employers are opportunities
that will mean that we're able to realise our

0:28:17.760,0:28:24.880
ambitions in space because the people to do that
are a key limiting factor, so I see it as quite

0:28:24.880,0:28:29.840
a challenge area for particularly
the next sort of five to ten years.

0:28:31.440,0:28:34.880
Okay that's great, Catherine, thank you.
I was just wondering as well if you

0:28:34.880,0:28:40.240
had access to the chat if you could
perhaps or we could put a link to that skills

0:28:40.240,0:28:45.280
survey that UK space agency has just done which
is a fascinating read and I'd recommend it to

0:28:45.280,0:28:50.560
to anybody who's interested in in this subject,
so great thanks Catherine and over to you Frank.

0:28:53.200,0:29:01.360
Thanks again Eamonn, so I think the future is
very exciting, I want to agree with both Catherine

0:29:01.360,0:29:08.400
and Sam about that, if I were a young person
I would be very pleased to see the job market

0:29:09.520,0:29:15.120
in this sector. I'm going to say something that's
a little counterintuitive which is I'm trying to

0:29:15.120,0:29:22.880
stop using the word space as often as I do and
focus on the words solar system or solar ecosystem

0:29:23.600,0:29:29.440
and begin to think about
that as the arena in which

0:29:30.000,0:29:37.120
most of the things we're talking about will
happen, and to begin as some of the copy promoting

0:29:38.160,0:29:46.560
this series talks about begin to think about
space as a place i.e the solar system and I

0:29:46.560,0:29:53.840
like to say the rest of the solar system because
the Earth is of course part of that entity

0:29:54.640,0:30:02.000
and it seems to me that everything we do
here on Earth we will be doing in the

0:30:02.000,0:30:08.480
rest of the solar system, something that Sam and
Catherine both said. In terms of what's

0:30:08.480,0:30:16.480
really going on I looked up a report by Axios, by
Miriam Cramer, saying that venture capital firms

0:30:16.480,0:30:25.840
invested 15.7 billion dollars in 250 companies
in 2020. That was in the middle of a pandemic

0:30:28.080,0:30:35.280
so we can imagine how this may grow and I
think it's reminiscent of the dot-com bubble in

0:30:35.280,0:30:42.720
cyberspace in the 1990s and of course the bubble
burst, a lot of money was spent, a lot of money was

0:30:42.720,0:30:50.320
lost but some strong firms emerged from that and
I really believe that for people considering this

0:30:50.320,0:30:56.880
as a career it's there, and as we've been saying
you don't have to be an engineer to do it. Now, if

0:30:56.880,0:31:05.840
you look at the jobs available now you're going to
see a lot of engineers - not authors, not writers,

0:31:06.560,0:31:12.160
not poets - even though all the astronauts I've
interviewed said we really need to send poets

0:31:12.720,0:31:19.360
out there so they can explain what it's like but
a poet can't create a rocket that will take an

0:31:19.360,0:31:26.560
engineer into orbit; but an engineer can create
a rocket that will take a poet into orbit. So

0:31:26.560,0:31:34.160
we have to be patient about this, but I just
looked at Indeed which is a placement agency, and

0:31:35.200,0:31:41.840
SpaceX has 689 jobs available,
as of today, Blue Origin has 323,

0:31:42.800,0:31:51.280
Virgin Galactic - which has run into a few
problems - has 27, Google has 1039, and Apple has

0:31:51.280,0:31:57.920
almost 3200. So I think Catherine was referring
to this, that there is real competition for talent.

0:31:58.880,0:32:07.280
But Google and Apple were small once upon
a time and I also saw an online report from

0:32:07.280,0:32:14.480
the Space Foundation: in 2019, there were
183 000 jobs in the sector and that

0:32:14.480,0:32:21.040
did not include Aerospace. So again, whatever
we're doing here we're going to do there

0:32:22.080,0:32:32.000
and it seems to me that people who are interested
should really not shy away from their vision.

0:32:32.000,0:32:37.280
My research is on the impact of seeing the
Earth from orbit, I call it the Overview Effect,

0:32:38.080,0:32:43.840
I've been interviewing people who've signed up
for Virgin Galactic, that's why they're going.

0:32:45.040,0:32:52.080
NASA astronauts don't go to look at the Earth, they
go to do scientific experiments for the most part,

0:32:53.600,0:33:01.200
but we now have people who are going and
paying good money for the experience itself, so

0:33:01.920,0:33:10.160
I would just leave it with, imagine the so-called
space tourism industry and look at all the jobs

0:33:10.160,0:33:17.440
that we have on the Earth for tourism and many
of them are non-technical, as we've been saying,

0:33:18.400,0:33:27.520
and so I believe that we're at the cusp of
really exponential growth, like most exponential

0:33:27.520,0:33:35.280
growth curves it seems very incremental until
it takes off so I believe we could see a huge

0:33:36.080,0:33:42.320
growth spurt and it'll be surprising
and I really hope that's what happens.

0:33:42.320,0:33:47.920
I don't know if this is my analysis
or my wish - perhaps they go together -

0:33:48.560,0:33:52.880
but I do see that possibility and I
talk to a lot of young people about this

0:33:53.600,0:33:59.840
and I know they're excited and they're hoping it
turns out like that, so I'll leave it at that but

0:33:59.840,0:34:06.080
that's what I think is going to happen. Thank you
Frank, fascinating, thanks for the reference to

0:34:06.080,0:34:12.400
state of the place and I love your expression 
'whatever it is that we're doing here we're going

0:34:12.400,0:34:19.840
to do there' so that opens up the picture very
very nicely so thank you. Sam, how about you?

0:34:20.560,0:34:26.000
Thanks Eamonn,just pick up
where Frank left off, the

0:34:26.880,0:34:31.200
the level of interest and opportunity in the
space sector, I don't think it's ever been

0:34:31.200,0:34:36.800
higher which which makes it
a fantastic time to be looking at the sector, and

0:34:36.800,0:34:42.960
just look at the integrated review which
the UK released recently as space is

0:34:43.680,0:34:48.320
featuring really prominently, so a couple of
quick points on sort of skills and space. I

0:34:48.320,0:34:54.080
think the first one for me is that space isn't
special from a skills perspective: it's

0:34:54.880,0:35:01.360
cool and it's hard in some ways but actually Elon
Musk took a lot of his automotive engineers from

0:35:01.360,0:35:07.120
Tesla into SpaceX 
because of their skills and what

0:35:07.120,0:35:11.360
they could bring so we need to
demystify space, it's not that hard.

0:35:12.000,0:35:16.720
The second point - which Catherine's really
brought out already - is about diversity, so

0:35:17.440,0:35:24.880
it's extremely important with the place that
Frank's just described, it's a future economic

0:35:24.880,0:35:30.240
zone that really needs all sorts of different
thinking and people and ideas to actually

0:35:30.800,0:35:36.560
capitalise on it, to make the best that
we can for Earth. At the Catapult, for

0:35:36.560,0:35:42.800
example, we've consciously not brought in too
many people directly from the space sector - some

0:35:42.800,0:35:46.720
fantastic people in the space sector - but that
diversity of thought's really really important.

0:35:48.160,0:35:52.480
So we need to look with what we need now and
then at least 10 years in the future because

0:35:52.480,0:35:57.920
there's obviously a bit of a lag with skills
and I'd certainly highlight robotics and AI as a

0:35:57.920,0:36:03.120
key skill for the space sector because I said in
response to the earlier question that I think that

0:36:03.920,0:36:08.400
assembly and manufacturing, creating big
infrastructure in space is going to be a 

0:36:08.400,0:36:11.840
key thing for the next little while and
those skills are going to be hugely important.

0:36:12.960,0:36:17.200
Then it's everything that 
you've touched on already which is

0:36:17.760,0:36:23.680
the space sector is technically really very good
but actually we need so many other skills, it's

0:36:25.600,0:36:32.800
sociologists, economists, definitely business
people, business acumen, finance expertise:

0:36:32.800,0:36:36.000
it's those sorts of things that are
really going to unlock the space sector.

0:36:38.320,0:36:44.240
Alongside that there's how you work with other
sectors so there's the sectors that space

0:36:44.240,0:36:49.040
touches already through the services it delivers
like connectivity, safer agricultural transport,

0:36:49.840,0:36:55.120
and then bringing these other sectors I've talked
about like the energy sector towards things like

0:36:55.120,0:37:01.040
solar power in space. Those are interesting
but more readily there are a bunch of

0:37:01.040,0:37:06.320
adjacent sectors that can be brought towards space
to create the sector that we really need tomorrow,

0:37:06.320,0:37:11.360
and it's going to be a very different-looking
sector, very different makeup to what it is today,

0:37:11.360,0:37:16.160
so we could bring advanced manufacturing
robotics - those sorts of skills - towards the space

0:37:16.160,0:37:23.200
sector now that that would really make
a difference. Entrepreneurial aspects are

0:37:23.200,0:37:28.480
also very important - and we've seen the benefits
of those over the last five to ten years - so

0:37:29.120,0:37:37.040
the combination of ambitious young startups
plus the massively capable space industry that

0:37:37.040,0:37:42.000
exists today - it's that sort of tension and
playing off each other and working together

0:37:42.000,0:37:45.840
that's really driven this shift
we've seen recently and that's going to be

0:37:46.400,0:37:50.960
hugely important moving forward. There's so
many great support mechanisms for entrepreneurs

0:37:50.960,0:37:56.960
from these business incubators; UK Space
Agency's got a business incubation network,

0:37:56.960,0:38:01.600
just in Oxford you've got The Foundry and things
like Creative Destruction Lab, it's a great

0:38:02.880,0:38:09.360
landscape of support there for people that
do want to engage. I think 

0:38:09.360,0:38:14.080
there are some challenges and I think
the thing we really need to do is make sure

0:38:14.080,0:38:22.800
there's sufficient ambition and vision
and capability to realise what are big,

0:38:22.800,0:38:28.240
big opportunities, but they're going to
need finance and working together and tech

0:38:28.240,0:38:32.320
innovation, perhaps on a scale that we've
not seen before, but if we can get that

0:38:32.320,0:38:37.600
it's really, really exciting times for
the space sector and like Frank I think it's 

0:38:37.600,0:38:44.240
really is on the cusp and for anyone
that's entering the sort of world of work now

0:38:45.120,0:38:48.640
one of the best piece of advice I was
given was sort of skate towards 

0:38:48.640,0:38:52.400
where the money is going to be at the peak
of your career, which isn't in sort of 

0:38:52.400,0:38:57.440
20 plus years time, and I think the space
sector is a fantastic bet for many many people.

0:38:58.720,0:39:03.920
Fabulous, thank you Sam, thank you Catherine,
and thank you Frank, and Frank just had to step

0:39:03.920,0:39:08.880
out for a moment, he'll be joining us again in a
second. Well lots to think about that, I mean

0:39:08.880,0:39:13.520
the picture that I'm getting is that it's 
an exciting space, especially for people looking

0:39:13.520,0:39:19.760
for careers, and what struck me is that it's
competitive from a sort of employer's point

0:39:19.760,0:39:27.040
of view which has got to be good for employees,
the competition for talent, there's a diversity of

0:39:27.040,0:39:34.160
talent and people needed, precisely because of
the innovative and potentially novel nature of the

0:39:34.160,0:39:40.240
work and on the long term agenda, but also I
like the point that each of you talks about the need

0:39:40.240,0:39:47.600
to demystify space in a way, that it's not just
the domain of you know double PhD physicists

0:39:47.600,0:39:52.400
and rocket scientists, that we need all
sorts of people in this sector to make it work and

0:39:52.400,0:39:58.240
- as you said, Sam and Catherine - to unlock it but
also importantly that transferability of skills

0:39:58.240,0:40:02.640
as well, that if you are working in one
particular sector you may well have skills that

0:40:02.640,0:40:09.440
are valuable to those in the space
sector too. I also liked the description of

0:40:09.440,0:40:16.240
space as a future economic zone actually and
needing the quality and diversity of

0:40:16.240,0:40:21.840
thought to actually shape what
that ends up looking like in the long term, so

0:40:23.280,0:40:27.600
once again brilliant insights. Thank you
very much for just really enriching that

0:40:27.600,0:40:33.040
that topic and casting a completely new light
on it that hopefully, for those of us

0:40:33.040,0:40:38.960
that have tuned in, will be thinking about careers
in space and perhaps you've opened some doors for

0:40:38.960,0:40:45.120
them that they may well have thought were either
closed or didn't exist, so thank you. So with that

0:40:45.120,0:40:52.800
I think I'll hand over to open the floor to
the audience and we have got some questions coming

0:40:52.800,0:41:00.160
in, some which are very interesting. I think
I'll go first to this one from and let me get

0:41:00.160,0:41:07.920
pronunciation correct - I probably won't - Chhorleang
from Cambodia, and the question here is

0:41:07.920,0:41:14.800
what would you recommend to emerging countries
without legacy space agencies that want to

0:41:14.800,0:41:21.760
benefit from space commerce? So how about we
start with you Catherine, and then over to Sam.

0:41:24.480,0:41:29.200
Thanks, interesting
question. In many respects, I think

0:41:29.200,0:41:36.320
countries that haven't got sort of legacy
space agency and approach to space 

0:41:36.320,0:41:40.480
quite well get the best advantage because
I think you're sort of starting without the

0:41:41.600,0:41:47.920
the hinterland of history I
spoke earlier about, how 

0:41:48.800,0:41:52.960
that there's the sort of commercial side of space
and then there's the kind of exploration side,

0:41:53.920,0:41:58.720
at least can bring an awful lot to 
country infrastructure and delivery of

0:41:58.720,0:42:05.040
of services. I think the first thing I'd
say, one thing's very well in the UK was kind of

0:42:06.080,0:42:11.760
to do, so I'd certainly recognise around
what you're trying to do and get a kind

0:42:11.760,0:42:18.960
of people who have a shared vision together,
ideally involving a government but it doesn't [_]

0:42:20.240,0:42:24.720
and then be just sort of having your idea
about how you want to use space and 

0:42:24.720,0:42:32.000
going for it and thinking about the part that
space can play in infrastructure and forming

0:42:32.000,0:42:37.360
your view about how you're going to exploit
space infrastructure, other people are [__].

0:42:38.320,0:42:44.240
Just taking one example,
the Copernicus Programme is something which has

0:42:45.360,0:42:51.680
been invested in European countries and
others and is run by a sort

0:42:51.680,0:42:58.000
of coalition of members, European Space Agency
and the European Commission. It has partner

0:42:58.000,0:43:03.840
agencies from around the world and it's part
of the system of systems, but people can benefit

0:43:03.840,0:43:09.200
freely from the infrastructure and
services off the back of that to grow a commercial

0:43:09.200,0:43:15.840
sector without needing to be part of the
space infrastructure element. So I suppose, because

0:43:15.840,0:43:21.920
my three watch words will be organised, be aware of
what's already there, and think about the fact

0:43:21.920,0:43:27.600
to be encumbered by a history in space 
it can actually be quite liberating to start

0:43:27.600,0:43:33.200
from first principles and think about how you
want to use space to benefit your economy.

0:43:35.280,0:43:41.680
Thank you, Sam, any thoughts? I think that was
a great response from Catherine.

0:43:43.280,0:43:49.040
There's lots of different aspects to space
commerce and actually using data from space

0:43:49.040,0:43:55.840
to deliver benefits to countries
is relatively low cost, it's a bit like

0:43:56.480,0:44:02.240
- that tend to be data plays - so that's
a kind of low cost entry point, you've then got,

0:44:02.800,0:44:08.960
a lot of the revolution recently has been
around lower cost small satellites, lower cost ways

0:44:08.960,0:44:14.640
of doing things and some real innovation there,
so there's a great set of platforms 

0:44:15.440,0:44:22.640
that you could bring and leverage and 
use to drive growth - I think Catherine touched on

0:44:22.640,0:44:27.040
it - but perhaps emphasise it even more, 
space is just such a great area for international

0:44:27.040,0:44:32.720
partnership and collaboration and actually
working out how you can work with other countries

0:44:32.720,0:44:37.520
and partners to perhaps do something bigger than
you might be able to do as a

0:44:37.520,0:44:45.280
single country is really fantastic, but
the point - having like Catherine

0:44:45.840,0:44:50.400
seen the benefits of things - what
started out as the space innovation

0:44:50.400,0:44:55.840
and growth strategy in the UK, it's been absolutely
transformational, I think the the ability to bring

0:44:55.840,0:45:02.320
government, industry, and academia together against
a long-term plan and it just grows from there.

0:45:03.520,0:45:10.400
Okay, thank you, I'm going to announce a question
from Annika Janssen in the Netherlands, and I think

0:45:10.400,0:45:15.040
this one's for you Frank, it says what do
you think the biggest ethical challenges are

0:45:16.720,0:45:21.120
going to be with regard to the
developments of the future space job market?

0:45:23.920,0:45:30.160
Well this is an issue that I've been giving a lot
of thought to, I have founded an organisation

0:45:30.160,0:45:36.640
called the Human Space Program and one of our
tasks is to think about the ethical challenges

0:45:37.600,0:45:44.960
and one of the biggest ones has already been
mentioned and I think I'd like to mention it again,

0:45:45.680,0:45:53.680
and that has to do with diversity and inclusion,
that is to say most of the people I know who've

0:45:53.680,0:45:59.520
been interested in space exploration and
development for the last 30 or 40 years are

0:45:59.520,0:46:07.360
drawn by the idea that we can do better than we've
done on Earth, that it's a fresh start, it's an

0:46:07.360,0:46:16.160
opportunity to do better and one of the aspects
of doing better is to avoid the problems that have

0:46:16.160,0:46:23.440
occurred in previous great eras of exploration,
where a certain group of people dominated that

0:46:24.640,0:46:31.040
that period and it turned out not only
to be exploration but also exploitation.

0:46:32.240,0:46:37.440
And I think one of the key ways in
which to avoid that happening again,

0:46:38.480,0:46:46.800
going back to the emerging countries, is
to have multiple voices involved and not

0:46:46.800,0:46:54.880
the usual suspects, and I believe a lot of people
realise that the space sector has a lot of work to

0:46:54.880,0:47:02.640
do there, and I've talked about a no regrets
space policy, that is to say I don't want to

0:47:02.640,0:47:10.400
look back on this period and and say I wish
we'd thought of that or I don't want my

0:47:10.400,0:47:17.600
descendants to look back and say why didn't
Frank take a stand about that, and

0:47:17.600,0:47:22.960
and we have it happening right now, we're
trying to unwind a lot of things that happened

0:47:23.520,0:47:30.880
500 years ago when we had great exploration
but we made a lot of mistakes. So that's one,

0:47:32.000,0:47:36.560
given time I could list 10 more but I think
that's the one we should focus on right now.

0:47:37.360,0:47:42.960
Great, thank you Frank, and I think that also speaks
a little bit to another question we had from

0:47:42.960,0:47:48.240
Cambodia actually, which I think you've
covered a little bit, which is what role does

0:47:48.240,0:47:55.280
the young generation in developing countries play to
be a part of the industry? So I think that reminder

0:47:55.280,0:48:01.360
to you know enable and create opportunities and
to look for those opportunities so we don't carry

0:48:01.360,0:48:08.320
the same mistakes over into the future is a solid
reminder. Thank you, I'm going to go to a question

0:48:08.320,0:48:18.480
now from Sam Akomeah in London; in which
time frame now do you see the popularisation of

0:48:18.480,0:48:23.920
space travel? So this is a question that 
seems to be capturing people's imagination, there's

0:48:23.920,0:48:29.920
a couple of other questions related to that in the
in the chat so who'd like to speak first?

0:48:33.680,0:48:44.160
I'm holding back, I want Catherine to
go first. I think,

0:48:45.760,0:48:48.800
well, by popularisation I mean
this speaks a bit to the ethical

0:48:50.080,0:48:57.040
question, which is quite an ethical question about
equality of access space for people and 

0:48:57.040,0:49:06.000
you become truly and when everyone's got
access to getting into space, I am 

0:49:06.640,0:49:11.520
going to go quite far out, I don't see it
as something that's going to happen particularly

0:49:12.080,0:49:18.800
quickly, but I think we will see 
kind of a lot more people going into

0:49:18.800,0:49:24.160
space and a lot more people traveling in space.
I think the interesting question, which is much

0:49:24.160,0:49:30.560
more in Frank's ballpark, what that then does
for the kind of specialness of the 

0:49:30.560,0:49:37.040
overview effect, does it become more or
less special that more people see it, and 

0:49:37.040,0:49:42.960
what does that do for humanity's perspective,
or is it one of those topics where 

0:49:42.960,0:49:48.960
it sort of works for people who got it anyway,
so I think it raises some interesting questions

0:49:48.960,0:49:54.880
but I think we're quite some way off the
popular popularisation of space travel, personally

0:49:54.880,0:50:00.080
I'd put it kind of 50 years into the
future but I'm very welcome to be proved wrong.

0:50:02.400,0:50:07.600
I'll perhaps pull it back slightly but
you're probably not far off, I don't think,

0:50:10.160,0:50:15.520
I remember going to events in 2004 and being
very excited about space tours going

0:50:15.520,0:50:21.040
to be kicking off in the next couple of years and
hopefully it might happen this year,

0:50:22.000,0:50:27.440
but actually I think what we are
seeing is the level of development and

0:50:27.440,0:50:35.520
advances in rocketry and propulsion and Elon
Musk's literally talking about producing thousands

0:50:35.520,0:50:42.400
of starships, it's the the access to space is
is going to open up and whilst it probably is

0:50:42.400,0:50:50.160
going to be sadly largely open to people with
deep pockets for the short to medium term,

0:50:50.160,0:50:56.080
I do think we're going to see a steady increase
in things like private space stations,

0:50:56.080,0:51:00.960
we could well see them within a 10-ish
year time frame and it's going to

0:51:01.680,0:51:07.840
keep growing from there, so yeah I think we're
on the cusp but it's going to be a slow burn.

0:51:09.520,0:51:17.600
Frank, would you like to add anything to that? 
Sam mentioned 2004, I think that's when Virgin

0:51:17.600,0:51:26.000
Galactic was founded; Sir Richard Branson hoped
they'd be flying very soon after that, they haven't

0:51:26.000,0:51:32.240
made it yet in terms of flying paying
customers. However we should think about

0:51:32.240,0:51:37.200
the fact that they've got enough people
signed up that if they do start flying

0:51:38.080,0:51:45.120
in a few years they would more likely have flown
more people than all the space agencies since 

0:51:45.120,0:51:54.320
1961. And so once once they have that breakthrough
I think it'll go rather quickly.

0:51:55.360,0:52:02.400
I have a colleague who has moved, actually, to
Brownsville, Texas to keep an eye on what Elon

0:52:02.400,0:52:08.960
Musk is doing and she has said to me, this
is going to happen faster than we think.

0:52:10.960,0:52:19.360
In contrast to Virgin - as Sam mentioned - they
are turning out starships faster than they

0:52:19.360,0:52:25.520
can fly them, and more than that they have
adapted the starship not only to go to Mars

0:52:26.240,0:52:36.240
but to go into low earth orbit and to do more
immediate space tourism types of flights, so 

0:52:37.280,0:52:45.360
pick your model - NASA, Virgin
Galactic or SpaceX - and that's going to

0:52:45.360,0:52:51.360
determine how fast it's going to happen. I want
to say one other thing about Catherine's point,

0:52:52.080,0:52:58.480
my original theory about the overview effect was
about people living permanently out there in the

0:52:58.480,0:53:04.000
solar system and I thought it would be rather
ordinary, not a big breakthrough, it would just

0:53:04.000,0:53:09.200
be there's the Earth in the sky of course, it's
a whole system everything's interconnected and

0:53:09.200,0:53:16.320
so on. When we started talking to astronauts we found
it was somewhat shocking what they saw and so now

0:53:16.320,0:53:22.400
we're talking about bringing the overview effect
down to Earth, that means either giving people the

0:53:22.400,0:53:29.120
experience like the astronauts or using virtual
reality to give them the experience, and I've said

0:53:29.120,0:53:34.720
that I think it really ought to be a human right
to have the experience directly or indirectly.

0:53:35.440,0:53:41.840
Everybody should have a chance, because when I talk
to astronauts it's so incredible and so positive.

0:53:42.720,0:53:50.320
We really have to have a paradigm shift
and consider it to be something every human being

0:53:50.320,0:53:59.280
ought to have a chance to have. If that kind of
commitment were made that would change everything

0:53:59.280,0:54:08.720
too, I suppose, but that could take 50 years too,
Catherine, to get the idea of the overview

0:54:08.720,0:54:16.160
effect as a human right out there. That's a
fascinating insight that it's the

0:54:16.160,0:54:21.760
shift in the human psyche might take longer than
the technology takes to produce but that wouldn't be

0:54:21.760,0:54:25.840
the first time that's happened in history either.
I'm going to - I've got lots of great

0:54:25.840,0:54:32.000
questions coming - I'm going to combine two - I
hope you don't mind - Gigi Edmondson in Boston

0:54:32.000,0:54:38.240
and Anita Bernie in Reading, I'm going to
combine your two questions.  Gigi asked 

0:54:39.520,0:54:45.840
about the differentiation of the job market
internationally, so whether - I assume - whether to

0:54:45.840,0:54:53.520
be clusters of expertise in different countries a
bit like we may have now. Whereas Anita 

0:54:54.480,0:54:58.800
quoted you, Sam and said that you said follow
the money and she says where's the money

0:54:58.800,0:55:03.680
going to be? To support the 
space skills sector in particular? So

0:55:04.240,0:55:11.440
I'll start with Catherine with that one.
Thank you so this is sort of differentiation

0:55:11.440,0:55:18.320
versus particularity and that sort of thing,
I mean I think there probably will be 

0:55:18.320,0:55:25.600
core job and skills needs
that will be global, and then I think some

0:55:25.600,0:55:30.480
things will be driven by whatever that country
is doing and who they're collaborating with.

0:55:30.480,0:55:38.640
So in terms of some of the skills that I think
are going to be global, I think the kind of,

0:55:38.640,0:55:45.120
particularly this personal view, but particularly
the kind of data skills, the adjacent skills from

0:55:45.920,0:55:49.840
AI and machine learning and so on are going
to be the skills that are going to be 

0:55:50.400,0:55:57.600
most important, and then how you 
kind of pull space technology so that kind of 

0:55:58.560,0:56:03.920
general taking away of
space blindness if you like, you know

0:56:03.920,0:56:09.200
understanding how space is enmeshed in daily 
life I think is going to be the global skill.

0:56:09.200,0:56:13.840
And then I think after that it will 
come down to what particular countries are doing,

0:56:14.400,0:56:19.840
so if you're in the UK and you 
know our next big thing is that we want to

0:56:19.840,0:56:24.560
start putting structures in space and doing 
power from space or we're particularly driven

0:56:24.560,0:56:30.320
to be very green in space so we're looking for 
green propulsion technologies and green materials

0:56:30.320,0:56:34.720
and that kind of thing, those will be 
the skills that we will need. So I think it's 

0:56:35.280,0:56:40.480
how are you going to tell? I'd say look 
to your country's kind of space strategies, yes,

0:56:41.040,0:56:45.520
but look to the way that your general economy 
is going: I think that will be as big a guide

0:56:45.520,0:56:50.080
for where those space skills will come in  
as anything else, and I think you can get very

0:56:50.640,0:56:55.680
focused in on what you think people are doing 
in the space domain and I think it's

0:56:55.680,0:57:01.600
as much about reading the signals about your 
your country's priorities in the round

0:57:01.600,0:57:06.720
would be the way I would look at 
it. Thank you. Sam, any any thoughts?

0:57:09.520,0:57:17.520
Thanks. I definitely agree with  
all that Catherine's said.

0:57:20.000,0:57:25.840
To build pm an earlier point, space 
is really broad and it's going to cover all sorts

0:57:25.840,0:57:33.520
of sectors, and I think catherine's 
got it exactly right and insofar as 

0:57:33.520,0:57:37.840
each country will hopefully 
develop a kind of national strategy or

0:57:39.680,0:57:45.520
something similar and then 
what are your current strengths? Where do you

0:57:45.520,0:57:52.960
think you could be strong? And  
you plan to build the greatest sort of

0:57:52.960,0:57:57.360
advantage that you can. I think we all hope 
with space as well there's a lot of cooperation

0:57:57.360,0:58:04.240
between nations, but who's going to be 
launching stuff? Who's going to be manufacturing

0:58:04.240,0:58:09.360
stuff? Who's going to be taking the data out and doing 
things with that? There's roles for

0:58:09.360,0:58:16.640
everyone in space and I think there's lots 
of opportunities now over the next 10 years to

0:58:16.640,0:58:20.880
really work out where different nations really 
are going to be excellent at different things.

0:58:20.880,0:58:27.040
You also asked about where the money's going to be. 
I think in the short term there's lots

0:58:27.040,0:58:32.560
of great commercial opportunities around certainly 
the big constellations that are being put up for

0:58:33.520,0:58:38.960
connectivity and observation, and 
then if we're looking further out Catherine

0:58:38.960,0:58:44.320
just mentioned space-based solar power, but big 
infrastructure in space and the next generation of

0:58:45.280,0:58:49.520
of systems so you can create systems 
that can deliver direct mobile connectivity

0:58:49.520,0:58:55.280
so you can have a larger antenna etc and then 
slowly over time we'll be working out towards

0:58:55.920,0:59:00.960
the moon and beyond but in the short 
term there there are some real good commercial

0:59:00.960,0:59:05.280
opportunities and the the finance sector is 
getting very interested in space now.

0:59:06.640,0:59:16.160
Okay thank you very much. Well now we're rapidly 
approaching um 1600 GMT so we're winding

0:59:16.160,0:59:23.840
up the hour. Thank you to our panelists for those 
excellent insights. You've certainly painted, as

0:59:23.840,0:59:31.680
I said earlier, a very rich picture; you've described 
many of the opportunities and challenges for 

0:59:31.680,0:59:37.760
the space sector. You've added a lot 
of complexity I think to the picture that many of

0:59:37.760,0:59:44.320
us have of space, as you know the old space 
view but also the new space and what's emerging,

0:59:44.320,0:59:50.160
the amount of energy and activity that's going 
on in that sector at the moment is truly

0:59:50.160,0:59:55.680
impressive, and of course you've all contributed 
to that in a way. But I've taken away a few

0:59:56.240,1:00:03.120
key insights: one is this idea that you just 
mentioned, Catherine, of space blindness. I like

1:00:03.120,1:00:08.240
that, I like the idea that what's so special about 
space anyway? Why can't we all go there? Why can't

1:00:08.240,1:00:12.800
we all work in that sector? You know everybody 
sort of welcomes that I think opens a lot of

1:00:12.800,1:00:17.040
doors and that's a that's a lovely concept to 
keep working with I think so I may well quote

1:00:17.040,1:00:23.840
you on that in the future if that's okay. I also 
love the idea of poets in space - what a great idea,

1:00:25.760,1:00:30.080
what a wonderful way to communicate what it's 
like out there, and I hadn't really fully

1:00:30.080,1:00:37.920
appreciated, Frank, just quite how important that 
overview of that view was to the human psyche,

1:00:37.920,1:00:43.520
and I think that will resonate with a lot of 
people who are interested but maybe don't quite

1:00:43.520,1:00:49.840
know why they're interested in this to such an extent 
and I'll certainly read your latest

1:00:49.840,1:00:56.000
book on that one. Sam, you know, the future 
economic zone what a wonderful way to think about

1:00:56.000,1:01:01.040
space as a place. I mean because that's so 
precisely what's happening, and yet we do

1:01:01.040,1:01:06.720
tend to have these ideas of it as this abstract 
void in a way, full of adventures, and yet

1:01:07.680,1:01:13.200
practically there's so much activity going on that 
is exactly as treating it as a future economic

1:01:13.200,1:01:22.320
zone. I also liked the notion that all of 
you touched on, thank you for doing so as well,

1:01:23.520,1:01:29.920
but I think the expression goes to Catherine for 
this vibrant inclusiveness that is needed in space

1:01:29.920,1:01:33.920
and there is a genuine opportunity to 
think about this as a place and then we can

1:01:33.920,1:01:40.720
start thinking about what kind of a place we want 
it to be. So on that note thank you once again for

1:01:40.720,1:01:46.720
your time; it's been hugely enlightening and 
very much appreciated. On behalf of everybody here

1:01:46.720,1:01:51.840
at the Saïd Business School, Pembroke College, 
and Oxford University, thank you once again.

1:02:34.880,1:02:35.380