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Hello, I'm Peter Tufano

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and welcome to Leadership in

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Extraordinary Times, a podcast

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from Said Business School at the

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University of Oxford.

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The world needs business at its

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best, and in this episode,

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we'll be finding out how business

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can be part of fundamental economic,

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social and environmental change

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by signing up to the UK's Better

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Business Act, this

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radical change would legally oblige

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companies to think about their

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impact on the future.

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Our special guests are two leaders

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of this campaign, Amy

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Clarke, Chief Impact Officer

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at Tribe Capital, and Douglas

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Lamont, CEO of Innocent

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Drinks.

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Chairing the discussion are Oxford

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Said's Dr. Mary Johnstone-Louis

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and Charmain Love.

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Here's episode five, Building

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a Better Economic System.

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The Better Business Act.

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Hello and welcome to today's

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Leadership in Extraordinary Times

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event from Oxford University's

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Said Business School, and wherever

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you are in the world, whatever time

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it is right now, thank you for

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joining us. I'm Mary

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Johnstone-Louis.

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I'm a Senior Research Fellow here

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at Oxford Said.

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And today we are discussing

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something truly extraordinary.

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Since its launch just over

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two months ago, the Better Business

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Act in the UK has gained

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support from more than 600

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businesses across this country.

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This act is a campaign.

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Its intention is to change

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UK law, to align

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the interests of people, profit

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and planet with every business's

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purpose and the responsibility

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of every business's directors.

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Specifically, the campaign's

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objective is to amend

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Section 172 of

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the UK's Company Act and to

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support these principles.

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So these truly are extraordinary

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times.

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Regulation and legal change

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are sometimes caricatured as

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a risk to business.

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But today we will hear from

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a CEO and an investor

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who support this legal change for

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business in the UK and have a chance

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to understand why.

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So we're looking forward to this

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conversation both with the

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panellists and just as important

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with you and your questions

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for us and for them.

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But first, let me introduce my

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co-host for today, Char Love,

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who is activist in residence

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and co-founder at

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B Lab UK.

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She is also co-chair of B Lab's

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Global Climate Task Force and

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an entrepreneur in residence here at

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Oxford Said.

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Char, over to you.

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Well, thank you, Mary.

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And I think this is going to be a

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really great conversation today

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because we have amazing leaders

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who are going to be sharing their

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reflections on the Better Business

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Act. And I know, as Mary has already

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said, we're going to be hearing from

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you as well.

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But let me start by introducing you

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to sort of two of our very special

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guests.

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First, we've got Douglas Lamont,

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who's joining us.

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He's the CEO of Innocent Drinks

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and he also co-chairs the UK's

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Better Business Act.

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So I know we're going to hear a

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little bit more about it from you,

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but I also think it's really

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important for us to also recognise

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the humans that are behind

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the people that we're going to be

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having joining us today.

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And so something about Douglas that

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you might not see is that actually

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in addition to his two jobs as

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CEO of Innocent Drinks, as

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well as co-chair of the Better

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Business Act, Douglas is also

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a taxi driver because he has four

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children that he often has to bring

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to different places.

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So welcome, Douglas.

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I also know that you have a very

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important power up song that you

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listen to. So when you're trying to

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get into the mood for the sort of

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economic systems change,

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you mentioned that sort of one of

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the songs on your playlist is

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American Idiot by Green Day.

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So hopefully we can have

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a little bit of a Spotify playlist

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for all these power up songs.

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So welcome, Douglas.

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We're also joined by the one and

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only Amy Clarke, who is the chief

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impact officer at Impact

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Capital and Tribe is the UK's

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first dedicated Impact Wealth

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Manager, which works in partnership

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with clients to gain a deep

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understanding of their values and

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how these align with the UN

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framework. I have my little pin

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on here today, Amy.

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Amy is also on the board of the.

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And something about Amy that you

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might not know that's not on her bio

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is that she actually has a three

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legged rescue dog and we might

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actually see in the background

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coming in and that she is happiest

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when she is barefoot in nature in

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her wetsuit.

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So, again, welcome, Amy.

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And we know that your favourite

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songs to get you sort of powered up

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for these economic systems

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change in these extraordinary times

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is the song rising by Muse.

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So I'm definitely putting that on my

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playlist.

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Now, Mary, not only

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are you the Senior Research Fellow

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here at Oxford Said, but you are

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also the chair of B Lab UK.

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And I have known you for a very long

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time, but I actually really enjoyed

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getting to know something about you

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that's not on your bio, which

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is that you thought you were going

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to be a cancer researcher

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and that you actually had as a first

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job cleaning medical

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equipment when you were a teenager.

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Which I think is pretty cool.

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So, Mary, I also

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am going to be putting on my play

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list your power up song, which is

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Bob Dylan, You Gotta Serve

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Somebody. So anyways,

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my friends, we are joined by just a

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really amazing group of people.

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And as I said, as amazing as all

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these speakers are, we know that

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your contributions to this

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discussion are really important.

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So we want to actively get you

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involved.

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Please, please, please share your

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questions via the chat box on

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whichever platform you're watching

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from that might be LinkedIn, it

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might be Facebook, it might be

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YouTube.

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I'm not sure if Tick-Tock has a

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platform, but anywhere

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you are, just please keep those

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questions coming in.

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All right. At this stage, I think we

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should just get tucked in.

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So, Mary, over to you to

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kick things off with our amazing

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panellists.

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Sounds great. Thanks so much, Char.

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Douglas, I'm going to kick off with

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you. So the Better Business

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Act is pretty lofty name, very

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ambitious.

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What is the Better Business Act,

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or sometimes affectionately termed

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the BBA?

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Why is it important?

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You're actually the co-chair.

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Why are you backing it?

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What we're trying to change the

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Companies Act here in the UK

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to get company directors

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to really think very differently and

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change the mindset in boardrooms

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away from our responsibility

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is to profit maximise for our

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shareholders to

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how as directors of companies,

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do we balance the needs of

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our shareholders, incredibly

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important in the system,

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but with other stakeholders, so so

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our people, our wider communities

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and the planet.

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And why we believe it's so important

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and why I'm supporting it is

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because, you know, we need the pace

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of change in the world around us

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to accelerate.

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We've got a climate crisis.

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We've got the beginnings of a social

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injustice crisis going on as

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well. And without speed

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of change accelerating,

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we're not going to be able to lead

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to a fairer, more sustainable

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future. And that needs to happen

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quickly. In the UK right

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now with the Companies Act,

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as it's currently drafted, which

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ultimately says to directors, please

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maximise outcomes for

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shareholders and maybe think

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about these other things.

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You've got incongruence because

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you've got a set of directors

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thinking, why do I need to profit

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maximise if I want to do something

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else? Can I do that?

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Does the law allow me to do that?

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Have I got active investors who are

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going to go after me if I don't

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just profit maximise?

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At the same time, you've got

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government who definitely want

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to move in the right direction, but

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they're having to put in adjustment

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policies and strategies.

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So how do we get business to behave

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itself?

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And so you've got the Companies Act

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asking directors one thing,

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government policy pulling in another

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direction or imposing

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sticks, if you like, to say, well,

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if you behave like that, then here's

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some law to stop you behaving like

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that. And if we can get everything

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together and aligned, so directors

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pulling in the same direction with

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the government, things will change

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faster. And so it's so important

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that ultimately the mindset

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is how does people profit and kind

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of get put in balance by government,

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by company directors and

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by all of us as individuals.

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And if we do that, things will

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change faster.

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The thing I really like is the

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diversity of companies involved.

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So you've got big companies like

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John Lewis and Iceland and,

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you know, businesses like my own at

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Innocent Drinks supporting it.

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But we've also got really

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small businesses, coffee shops from

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Cornwall, but as well as London

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law firms, investors like

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Amy, there's a growing group

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of leaders from right across the UK

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that are saying we need to

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make this change.

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We've also got the Institute of

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Directors supporting us.

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And they're really important because

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they're the ones that teach the

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manual to directors about how

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they should behave and they

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recognise that this changes is

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needed.

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And, you know, for them to be

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supporting this campaign shows the

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kind of strength of feeling that's

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out there from businesses to

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say we want to go in the

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right direction and this change will

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help us.

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Thanks so much, Douglas.

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So interesting that one thing that

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we all share on this panel is a

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connection to an entity called B

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Lab or B Corp. So

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B Corps are companies that are

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certified due to a standard

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and also a legal change that they

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make both of you in

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Innocent and in Tribe are

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have gone through that process.

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So is this a B

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Corps thing? This, this Better

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Business Act?

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You alluded to the fact that it's

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not. But why does that matter?

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It really matters because as

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B Corps we've already committed to

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this change. So we've had to go

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through a fairly tortuous process

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to change our articles of

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association to say we're going to

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behave like this, but we want

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that change to be for everybody.

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And that's one of the key principles

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that we make this change that

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applies to all companies as a

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default rather than some

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legal process that you have to go

00:09:50:24 00:09:51:23
through to change it.

00:09:52:03 00:09:53:19
It matters because, as I said

00:09:53:20 00:09:55:09
earlier, diversity matters here.

00:09:55:16 00:09:57:16
This is not some niche group

00:09:57:17 00:09:58:23
of far out there companies

00:10:00:00 00:10:01:08
that are sort of got their head in

00:10:01:09 00:10:02:22
the clouds. This is all types of

00:10:03:03 00:10:05:12
companies from all over the world

00:10:05:24 00:10:07:09
basically saying we need to make

00:10:07:10 00:10:08:18
this change. And as I said, whether

00:10:08:19 00:10:10:12
whether you're a big London law firm

00:10:10:18 00:10:12:19
or you're a small Scottish

00:10:13:03 00:10:14:18
investor or whether whether we've

00:10:14:22 00:10:15:19
got some great companies from

00:10:15:20 00:10:17:22
Northern Ireland who are in graphic

00:10:17:23 00:10:18:23
design, the diversity

00:10:19:19 00:10:21:03
of leaders saying we want to

00:10:21:14 00:10:22:24
pull in the same direction is really

00:10:22:25 00:10:24:25
important. So it's much wider than

00:10:25:07 00:10:26:21
than the B Corp

00:10:27:03 00:10:28:03
community signing up for this. And I

00:10:28:04 00:10:29:10
think that just shows the strength

00:10:29:11 00:10:30:21
of commitment to this type of

00:10:30:22 00:10:31:22
change.

00:10:31:23 00:10:32:23
Thanks so much.

00:10:33:03 00:10:34:03
So six hundred companies and

00:10:34:04 00:10:35:19
counting in just over two months.

00:10:35:24 00:10:37:09
So Char, over to you.

00:10:37:21 00:10:38:17
Well, it is funny.

00:10:38:18 00:10:40:06
Douglas, as you've been reflecting,

00:10:40:07 00:10:41:03
I've been writing down some of the

00:10:41:04 00:10:42:07
words and I realise there's like a

00:10:42:08 00:10:43:08
whole ABCs coming up

00:10:44:05 00:10:46:07
from A for alignment B

00:10:46:08 00:10:47:09
balance and business C

00:10:48:06 00:10:49:13
is change, D is diversity.

00:10:50:15 00:10:51:17
And I'm not going to go through all

00:10:51:18 00:10:53:02
twenty six letters, but I did also

00:10:53:03 00:10:54:01
want to pick up something else that

00:10:54:02 00:10:55:16
I really heard from you when you,

00:10:55:18 00:10:56:22
when you started reflecting on this

00:10:56:23 00:10:58:09
question, which is the pace of

00:10:58:10 00:11:00:04
change. And I'm going to put a U out

00:11:00:08 00:11:02:00
there, which is like the urgency of

00:11:02:01 00:11:02:24
action.

00:11:03:00 00:11:04:05
So, so thank you because I think you

00:11:04:06 00:11:05:21
brought a lot of the spirit of the

00:11:06:12 00:11:07:15
BBA right front and centre here.

00:11:07:22 00:11:09:11
And Amy, I want to move it over to

00:11:09:12 00:11:11:02
you, because actually we know that

00:11:11:03 00:11:12:10
there are sort of a series of core

00:11:12:11 00:11:14:10
principles of sort of grounding what

00:11:14:11 00:11:15:20
the Better Business Act is focussed

00:11:15:21 00:11:17:19
on and they are aligned

00:11:17:20 00:11:19:13
interest, they are about empowering

00:11:19:14 00:11:21:21
directors, changing the default

00:11:22:03 00:11:23:19
and reflect and reporting.

00:11:23:20 00:11:25:16
And Amy you know how much

00:11:25:17 00:11:27:01
we have in common around this idea

00:11:27:02 00:11:28:07
of like accountants will save the

00:11:28:08 00:11:29:19
world. And this reporting piece and

00:11:29:20 00:11:31:07
in particular is pretty exciting.

00:11:32:02 00:11:33:18
But I'd like to know how you think

00:11:33:19 00:11:35:08
about these principles from your

00:11:35:10 00:11:37:16
perspective as an investor

00:11:37:21 00:11:38:21
here in the UK.

00:11:39:12 00:11:41:00
Well, Char, before I answer that,

00:11:41:12 00:11:42:16
a couple of things. First, just

00:11:42:17 00:11:43:15
everybody listening. I'm really

00:11:43:16 00:11:44:17
sorry. I actually lost my voice

00:11:44:18 00:11:46:04
yesterday, so I'm hoping my voice is

00:11:46:05 00:11:47:13
going to be OK for the duration of

00:11:47:14 00:11:48:13
today.

00:11:48:15 00:11:50:06
And secondly, Char

00:11:51:02 00:11:52:18
mentioned that I like to go barefoot

00:11:52:19 00:11:54:12
in nature in my wet suit.

00:11:54:18 00:11:56:16
I am not some kind of weirdo who

00:11:56:17 00:11:58:14
walks around nature in a wet suit.

00:11:58:15 00:12:00:13
It's I like barefoot in nature and

00:12:00:14 00:12:01:20
I like to be my wet suit in the

00:12:01:21 00:12:03:19
water as well. So shall just in case

00:12:03:20 00:12:05:05
you inadvertently gave people the

00:12:05:06 00:12:06:13
impression that I want to ride in

00:12:06:14 00:12:08:13
the hills in my Patagonia.

00:12:09:12 00:12:10:21
It's a really good question in terms

00:12:10:22 00:12:12:01
of why should investors be

00:12:12:23 00:12:14:06
emotionally and intellectually

00:12:14:07 00:12:15:15
engaged in the Better Business Act.

00:12:16:01 00:12:17:07
I think quite simply,

00:12:17:23 00:12:19:06
good investing is about finding the

00:12:19:07 00:12:20:14
businesses of today and tomorrow.

00:12:20:15 00:12:21:13
And these are the businesses that

00:12:21:14 00:12:23:03
are future fitting themselves to

00:12:23:17 00:12:25:19
succeed in a constrained world,a

00:12:27:02 00:12:28:19
resource constrained world, a world

00:12:29:03 00:12:30:14
where inequality is rife,

00:12:31:11 00:12:33:10
that for from an investment point

00:12:33:11 00:12:34:24
of view means you really are going

00:12:34:25 00:12:36:02
to be looking at businesses who

00:12:36:03 00:12:37:12
understand the broader remit

00:12:38:09 00:12:39:16
of working with stakeholders,

00:12:39:17 00:12:40:22
understanding stakeholders'

00:12:40:24 00:12:42:11
preferences, desires, understanding

00:12:42:12 00:12:43:18
the constraints, the challenges that

00:12:43:19 00:12:45:04
they're facing and whether their

00:12:45:05 00:12:46:17
businesses are contributing to that

00:12:46:22 00:12:47:20
or whether their businesses are

00:12:47:21 00:12:48:22
actually solving for that.

00:12:49:05 00:12:51:09
So the Better Business Act is in

00:12:51:10 00:12:53:01
many ways part of a suite of

00:12:53:02 00:12:55:00
solutions that are out there that

00:12:55:01 00:12:56:11
create a tide that raises all

00:12:56:24 00:12:59:00
of these boats up and make it easier

00:12:59:01 00:13:01:12
for investors to then understand

00:13:02:02 00:13:03:20
which businesses out there actually

00:13:03:25 00:13:05:20
really do understand the issues that

00:13:05:21 00:13:06:21
they're facing. Because at the

00:13:06:22 00:13:07:21
moment, in the absence of

00:13:07:22 00:13:08:23
regulation, it's very, very

00:13:08:24 00:13:09:25
difficult. Investors are having to

00:13:09:26 00:13:11:14
work really, really hard to work

00:13:12:01 00:13:12:21
out where those future fit

00:13:12:22 00:13:13:21
businesses are.

00:13:14:14 00:13:15:18
So regulation and policy

00:13:17:02 00:13:18:15
in the investment world

00:13:19:03 00:13:20:23
as it relates to the sustainability

00:13:20:24 00:13:22:06
of a business, as it relates to the

00:13:22:07 00:13:23:20
purpose of the business, is

00:13:23:21 00:13:25:06
absolutely required.

00:13:25:20 00:13:27:06
You know, you and I, Char, have

00:13:27:07 00:13:29:04
spoken at length about, you know,

00:13:29:05 00:13:30:01
as you've just mentioned, how

00:13:30:02 00:13:31:10
accountants will save the world.

00:13:31:17 00:13:32:23
You know, we look at one of the core

00:13:32:24 00:13:34:18
parts, one of the call

00:13:35:02 00:13:37:00
to arms kind of within the BBA

00:13:37:07 00:13:39:07
itself is this notion of reporting

00:13:39:08 00:13:40:16
and ensuring that all businesses

00:13:40:17 00:13:42:03
report on their performance

00:13:42:13 00:13:43:14
at the moment. And there's a

00:13:43:15 00:13:44:25
plethora of different reporting

00:13:45:00 00:13:46:00
standards.

00:13:46:20 00:13:48:09
Some companies report, some

00:13:48:10 00:13:49:11
companies don't report.

00:13:49:12 00:13:50:23
Again, it's really difficult for

00:13:50:24 00:13:53:01
investors to understand where

00:13:53:02 00:13:54:19
they can go to find good reporting,

00:13:55:07 00:13:56:12
annual reporting

00:13:57:08 00:13:59:01
that is based on science.

00:13:59:02 00:13:59:20
It's based on whether on

00:13:59:21 00:14:01:00
environmental science or social

00:14:01:01 00:14:02:01
science et cetera.

00:14:02:13 00:14:04:00
If we look at empowering directors

00:14:04:01 00:14:05:09
as well, I mean, we only need to

00:14:05:10 00:14:06:09
look back a couple

00:14:07:06 00:14:09:07
of weeks now to Big Oil's Black

00:14:09:08 00:14:10:07
Wednesday.

00:14:10:08 00:14:12:04
The role of law is

00:14:12:05 00:14:13:19
becoming more and more prevalent.

00:14:13:22 00:14:16:00
And we've just seen that with Shell

00:14:16:01 00:14:17:25
in the Dutch district

00:14:18:00 00:14:19:18
court, that human rights

00:14:20:00 00:14:22:04
has overridden the shareholder

00:14:22:05 00:14:23:18
vote with regards to their energy

00:14:24:09 00:14:25:09
transition plan.

00:14:26:15 00:14:28:09
The changes that are required in law

00:14:28:12 00:14:29:21
run very deep and very, very

00:14:30:09 00:14:32:09
wide. But until directors

00:14:32:10 00:14:33:19
understand the obligations and the

00:14:33:20 00:14:35:14
responsibilities on them to run

00:14:35:15 00:14:37:02
those businesses in a future fit

00:14:37:03 00:14:38:15
way, recognising all of those risks

00:14:38:16 00:14:40:03
and those opportunities,

00:14:40:16 00:14:42:10
we will continue to have, I think,

00:14:42:20 00:14:44:10
combative relationships with some

00:14:44:12 00:14:46:03
companies and we'll continue to see

00:14:46:09 00:14:48:10
too many companies taking safety,

00:14:48:11 00:14:49:12
relative safety in the

00:14:50:09 00:14:51:16
narrative of transition.

00:14:51:17 00:14:53:06
We're transitioning, give us time,

00:14:53:11 00:14:55:10
rather than those companies

00:14:55:11 00:14:57:04
who have transitioned or who are

00:14:57:05 00:14:58:18
transitioning with pace as well.

00:14:58:19 00:15:01:01
So the BBA

00:15:01:02 00:15:02:20
is such a fundamental part, I think,

00:15:03:09 00:15:04:18
of a suite of tools that are

00:15:05:01 00:15:06:24
required to help investors

00:15:07:04 00:15:09:01
better allocate capital

00:15:09:02 00:15:10:17
to those businesses that can provide

00:15:10:18 00:15:12:04
those social, environmental and

00:15:12:05 00:15:13:23
economic solutions to the challenges

00:15:14:09 00:15:15:09
that we face.

00:15:15:21 00:15:16:18
Thanks so much, Amy.

00:15:16:19 00:15:18:04
I think that's really comprehensive

00:15:18:05 00:15:19:19
and it leads me to really want to

00:15:19:22 00:15:21:13
hear more, I think, from both you

00:15:21:14 00:15:23:06
and Douglas. But Douglas, I'll start

00:15:23:07 00:15:24:10
with you, if that's OK.

00:15:24:20 00:15:26:09
These are some lofty principles,

00:15:26:12 00:15:27:25
aligning interests, empowering

00:15:27:26 00:15:30:02
directors, reflecting your

00:15:30:11 00:15:32:17
your your impact in reporting.

00:15:32:23 00:15:34:16
And what I would like to understand

00:15:35:10 00:15:36:18
is how do you put this into

00:15:36:24 00:15:38:18
practise, for example, Douglas, what

00:15:38:21 00:15:40:05
would this look like if you were to

00:15:40:06 00:15:41:24
change the way that you

00:15:42:03 00:15:43:24
lead at Innocent, for example?

00:15:45:02 00:15:46:16
So this isn't about stakeholders

00:15:47:15 00:15:49:04
versus shareholders.

00:15:49:09 00:15:50:17
This is about bringing those two

00:15:50:18 00:15:52:07
things together. This isn't just the

00:15:52:16 00:15:53:16
right thing to do.

00:15:55:04 00:15:56:05
This is the smart thing to do. This
is what drives

00:15:56:06 00:15:57:23
value, creates success

00:15:57:24 00:15:59:18
for companies like Innocent.

00:15:59:24 00:16:01:22
We've come from nonexisting

00:16:01:23 00:16:03:02
20 years ago to now

00:16:03:19 00:16:04:21
being over half a billion of

00:16:04:22 00:16:06:10
turnover and the number one in our

00:16:06:11 00:16:07:18
category across Europe

00:16:08:10 00:16:09:18
as a result of living these

00:16:09:21 00:16:11:22
principles and being really clear

00:16:12:02 00:16:13:07
on how you balance them.

00:16:13:09 00:16:15:02
Now, that doesn't mean, it's easy.

00:16:15:17 00:16:17:10
It's really, really hard,

00:16:17:18 00:16:19:15
because every day there

00:16:19:16 00:16:21:10
are trade-offs and ultimately

00:16:21:15 00:16:22:15
every business leader has

00:16:22:16 00:16:23:14
trade-offs, even if they're trying

00:16:23:15 00:16:25:04
to profit maximise.

00:16:25:15 00:16:27:13
But this introduces more items that

00:16:27:20 00:16:29:02
which you have to trade off, you

00:16:29:03 00:16:30:15
know, the sustainability of your

00:16:30:16 00:16:31:23
products, the way that you treat

00:16:31:24 00:16:32:23
your employees.

00:16:32:24 00:16:34:15
So there's more to think about.

00:16:35:01 00:16:36:22
But ultimately, getting it right

00:16:37:05 00:16:39:07
delivers bigger and better outcomes

00:16:39:22 00:16:41:21
in terms of as an employer,

00:16:42:08 00:16:43:22
we attract fantastic talent

00:16:44:05 00:16:45:19
because we balance these principles

00:16:45:20 00:16:47:01
and we think hard about that in

00:16:47:02 00:16:48:07
terms of the value we get

00:16:48:25 00:16:50:02
from attracting better

00:16:50:21 00:16:52:10
quality talent ultimately allows

00:16:52:21 00:16:53:24
the business to go forward.

00:16:54:00 00:16:55:00
So

00:16:55:22 00:16:57:05
no one's saying that this is - to

00:16:57:06 00:16:58:19
implement this as a director and

00:16:59:03 00:17:00:09
this mindset is easy.

00:17:00:10 00:17:02:11
It's not, it's really hard, but

00:17:02:12 00:17:03:19
it delivers better outcomes for your

00:17:03:20 00:17:05:18
company and then delivers better

00:17:05:19 00:17:07:09
outcomes for society as a whole and

00:17:07:10 00:17:08:15
the planet. And that's got to be a

00:17:08:16 00:17:10:22
good thing. We are in extraordinary

00:17:10:23 00:17:12:04
times and they're extraordinary

00:17:12:05 00:17:13:15
because they're dangerous times.

00:17:14:00 00:17:15:12
And if we don't all work a bit

00:17:15:17 00:17:17:12
harder and have to think

00:17:17:13 00:17:18:20
a bit more wisely about how

00:17:19:09 00:17:21:02
we do these things, you know,

00:17:21:08 00:17:22:22
we're heading for

00:17:23:03 00:17:25:01
even more dangerous times is

00:17:25:03 00:17:26:20
an ask for everyone to step up.

00:17:27:03 00:17:28:13
But it's a very doable ask.

00:17:28:14 00:17:30:04
And that's what myself and others,

00:17:30:05 00:17:31:16
of course, have been trying to show

00:17:31:17 00:17:33:13
and show encouragement for,

00:17:33:14 00:17:34:22
is that this is doable and,

00:17:35:17 00:17:36:20
you know, hopefully showing the

00:17:36:21 00:17:38:06
blueprint for others to follow.

00:17:39:03 00:17:40:14
Thanks so much, Amy, anything

00:17:41:01 00:17:43:03
you would add on how you've seen

00:17:43:04 00:17:44:11
these principles be put into

00:17:44:12 00:17:45:21
practise specifically from an

00:17:45:24 00:17:46:24
investor point of view?

00:17:47:19 00:17:48:22
Yeah, well I was going to say I

00:17:48:23 00:17:50:15
mean, just building on what Douglas

00:17:50:16 00:17:52:05
has said and also just recognising

00:17:52:06 00:17:54:06
one of the questions

00:17:54:07 00:17:55:06
in the chat, we

00:17:56:06 00:17:58:10
became a B Corp from inception.

00:17:58:11 00:18:00:01
So when we set Tribe up, we knew we

00:18:00:02 00:18:01:15
wanted to become a benefit, a B

00:18:02:01 00:18:02:24
Corporation. We also knew that we
wanted

00:18:03:00 00:18:04:07
to align ourselves with the

00:18:04:22 00:18:05:22
new thinking around

00:18:06:20 00:18:08:10
investment, which, as I said, is in

00:18:08:11 00:18:09:15
the future for investing.

00:18:09:16 00:18:11:14
It's looking at responding to the

00:18:13:17 00:18:14:23
challenges that are outlined in the

00:18:14:24 00:18:16:03
Sustainable Development Goals.

00:18:16:13 00:18:18:03
So we built it in from scratch,

00:18:18:04 00:18:19:13
which I think in some ways is is

00:18:19:14 00:18:20:15
easier because you can

00:18:21:09 00:18:23:09
you can build it around the new code

00:18:23:10 00:18:25:18
as opposed to try and retrofit

00:18:25:19 00:18:27:09
a business that has been initially

00:18:27:25 00:18:29:02
built in the old code.

00:18:29:09 00:18:30:24
When you're having to effectively

00:18:31:01 00:18:32:01
then recode.

00:18:32:06 00:18:33:04
It's still really, really

00:18:33:05 00:18:34:13
challenging, though. And I think,

00:18:34:14 00:18:36:09
you know, when we're out in as

00:18:36:10 00:18:38:03
investors in the marketplace looking

00:18:38:04 00:18:40:11
at businesses, fundamentally,

00:18:40:12 00:18:42:18
95 percent, probably 98

00:18:42:19 00:18:44:01
percent of what we're looking at are

00:18:44:02 00:18:45:08
businesses that have

00:18:46:01 00:18:48:05
thrived in the old paradigm.

00:18:48:06 00:18:49:24
They've thrived with the old code.

00:18:50:04 00:18:52:01
And we know that the old code is

00:18:52:02 00:18:52:24
unfit for purpose.

00:18:53:00 00:18:54:23
It's it's it's Friedman 101,

00:18:55:18 00:18:57:02
you know, the last 45 years, the

00:18:57:03 00:18:58:12
last hundred years of business in

00:18:58:13 00:18:59:24
the code that business has has been

00:19:00:00 00:19:01:07
predicated on is not fit for the

00:19:01:08 00:19:02:18
next 45, the next hundred, the next

00:19:02:19 00:19:04:04
two hundred, the next 250.

00:19:05:05 00:19:07:02
So we're working in a system

00:19:07:03 00:19:08:11
that has got an awful lot of

00:19:08:24 00:19:09:21
error code.

00:19:09:22 00:19:10:24
It's got a lot of ghost code in it,

00:19:10:25 00:19:12:02
and we're having to kind of work

00:19:12:03 00:19:13:18
against that and get individuals and

00:19:13:19 00:19:15:09
get businesses to understand the

00:19:15:10 00:19:16:09
power of new

00:19:17:08 00:19:18:22
code and what it can deliver for

00:19:19:06 00:19:20:02
that business.

00:19:20:03 00:19:21:21
Short, medium and long term.

00:19:21:22 00:19:23:06
We're having to fight short termism

00:19:23:07 00:19:24:19
as well. So it's really, really

00:19:24:25 00:19:26:14
difficult. But there are

00:19:27:08 00:19:28:18
more companies out there who

00:19:29:00 00:19:30:10
understand the imperative to

00:19:30:17 00:19:32:02
transition, who either have

00:19:32:03 00:19:33:08
transitioned or who are

00:19:33:09 00:19:34:17
transitioning. There are more

00:19:34:18 00:19:36:07
directors out there than probably we

00:19:36:08 00:19:38:02
would think there are who get this.

00:19:39:14 00:19:40:20
But it is hard work.

00:19:40:21 00:19:42:10
You know, we're having to even as be

00:19:42:15 00:19:44:02
leaders, we're having to work

00:19:44:03 00:19:45:13
actively, I think, on a day to day

00:19:45:14 00:19:47:01
basis against the learning that

00:19:47:05 00:19:48:19
we've had, whether that's been in

00:19:48:20 00:19:49:22
school, whether that's been in

00:19:49:23 00:19:50:19
university.

00:19:50:20 00:19:52:11
You know, we have all been steeped

00:19:52:12 00:19:53:18
in kind of that Friedemann

00:19:54:11 00:19:56:06
code and we're having to

00:19:56:07 00:19:58:03
work against it and unlearn and

00:19:58:04 00:19:59:03
relearn.

00:19:59:08 00:20:00:17
And I think a lot of that comes down

00:20:00:18 00:20:01:17
to attitude

00:20:02:17 00:20:04:03
and aptitude and courage

00:20:04:13 00:20:05:25
at the end of the day, is all people

00:20:06:00 00:20:07:24
willing to step back and say, and

00:20:08:00 00:20:09:10
my part of the problem or am I part

00:20:09:11 00:20:10:15
of the solution? If I'm part of the

00:20:10:16 00:20:11:21
problem, can I become part of the

00:20:11:22 00:20:12:19
solution?

00:20:12:20 00:20:14:04
Very interesting perspective.

00:20:14:05 00:20:16:03
And so in terms of this

00:20:16:04 00:20:17:05
perspective that you guys are

00:20:17:06 00:20:19:12
sharing, it sounds very promising.

00:20:19:13 00:20:20:19
We have a lot of optimism.

00:20:20:20 00:20:22:20
But what are the risks that this

00:20:23:03 00:20:23:25
introduces?

00:20:24:00 00:20:25:05
For example, Douglas, what are the

00:20:25:06 00:20:26:22
risks this would introduce

00:20:27:04 00:20:28:23
for you from a business perspective?

00:20:29:12 00:20:30:19
And then, Amy, I'll ask the same to

00:20:30:20 00:20:32:12
you. What are the risks for

00:20:32:13 00:20:34:00
investors from getting involved

00:20:34:10 00:20:36:05
or supporting this kind

00:20:36:06 00:20:37:05
of initiative?

00:20:37:07 00:20:38:21
So, as the Chair you're not going to

00:20:39:06 00:20:40:03
you're not going to get me to say

00:20:40:04 00:20:41:10
that there are too many risks

00:20:41:24 00:20:43:06
from sort of committing to

00:20:43:09 00:20:44:09
supporting it.

00:20:44:12 00:20:46:19
What I've heard as co-chair,

00:20:46:23 00:20:48:16
the concern that people have and

00:20:48:23 00:20:50:00
we're already in discussion with the

00:20:50:01 00:20:51:15
government about how we could go

00:20:51:16 00:20:53:03
about implementing this, is that

00:20:53:11 00:20:55:04
as we make the change,

00:20:55:09 00:20:57:01
let's make sure that it doesn't open

00:20:57:02 00:20:58:15
up what sometimes gets described

00:20:59:06 00:21:00:16
as a lawyer's charter for people

00:21:00:17 00:21:02:04
just to go after directors for the

00:21:02:05 00:21:03:22
sake of it and say right under these

00:21:03:23 00:21:05:24
new rules, we want to test whether

00:21:06:00 00:21:07:04
you're living up to them or not.

00:21:07:07 00:21:08:16
What we want to make sure is that

00:21:08:17 00:21:10:04
the change is done in the right

00:21:10:16 00:21:12:06
way to make

00:21:12:14 00:21:14:09
the system go faster and make that

00:21:14:10 00:21:16:03
mindset shift in boardrooms and

00:21:16:04 00:21:17:21
behaviours around directors, rather

00:21:18:05 00:21:19:15
than opening up to a thousand

00:21:20:02 00:21:21:10
different legal avenues for

00:21:21:23 00:21:23:05
people to attack companies.

00:21:23:12 00:21:24:21
Because that wouldn't make sense.

00:21:25:09 00:21:27:00
This is about creating alignment

00:21:27:13 00:21:29:10
of mindset and action

00:21:29:11 00:21:31:15
between government, NGOs, business

00:21:31:20 00:21:33:05
and wider stakeholders.

00:21:33:06 00:21:35:02
And if we can achieve that with

00:21:35:03 00:21:36:11
the right wording that sets the

00:21:36:12 00:21:38:05
right intent for everyone, then

00:21:38:06 00:21:39:03
we're going to be in good shape.

00:21:39:04 00:21:41:00
So the risk is it doesn't

00:21:41:01 00:21:42:07
happen because people are worried

00:21:42:08 00:21:43:13
about that legal point.

00:21:43:21 00:21:45:02
I don't think they should be.

00:21:45:03 00:21:45:24
And I think the way that we're

00:21:46:00 00:21:47:20
proposing to bring it in,

00:21:48:07 00:21:49:19
you avoid that.

00:21:49:20 00:21:51:10
And we're making that point pretty

00:21:51:16 00:21:52:13
clearly.

00:21:52:14 00:21:54:04
I think the boat will just go faster

00:21:54:05 00:21:55:12
and move in the right direction.

00:21:55:13 00:21:56:10
And whether that's around

00:21:56:11 00:21:57:21
sustainability, whether that's about

00:21:57:22 00:21:59:24
livelihoods, will act more quickly

00:22:00:00 00:22:01:03
because the system will have been

00:22:01:04 00:22:03:02
reset. And Mary, you know

00:22:03:03 00:22:04:17
much better than me, whilst

00:22:04:18 00:22:06:05
governance and law,

00:22:06:14 00:22:07:11
and all that, it can seem boring to

00:22:07:12 00:22:09:08
people, it is really important

00:22:09:09 00:22:11:00
and it really is the fundamentals

00:22:11:01 00:22:12:17
that then drive the actions behind

00:22:12:20 00:22:14:13
it. So making sure that the

00:22:14:14 00:22:16:02
foundations of this are right

00:22:16:18 00:22:18:07
will will speed up the change we

00:22:18:08 00:22:19:08
want to see.

00:22:19:13 00:22:21:07
Absolutely. It's really, really

00:22:21:08 00:22:22:07
helpful observations, Douglas. I'm
going to push

00:22:22:24 00:22:23:22
a little bit on this.

00:22:23:23 00:22:25:09
So we have a very global audience

00:22:25:10 00:22:26:24
typically for these sessions, but

00:22:27:05 00:22:28:15
there also - very likely - are

00:22:28:17 00:22:30:21
businesses who are based in the UK,

00:22:31:02 00:22:32:20
who are watching this and who maybe

00:22:32:24 00:22:35:00
are asking themselves what

00:22:35:01 00:22:36:22
risks would I face as a business

00:22:36:23 00:22:38:15
if I were to join this group of six

00:22:38:19 00:22:40:05
hundred plus companies who have

00:22:40:06 00:22:41:05
supported the BBA?

00:22:41:06 00:22:42:21
So I've heard you say that you don't

00:22:42:22 00:22:44:18
think there are risks or that you

00:22:44:19 00:22:46:01
don't think those risks are

00:22:46:02 00:22:47:21
mitigated in certain forms or that

00:22:47:22 00:22:49:11
you think they are manageable.

00:22:49:18 00:22:51:07
But what would you say to someone

00:22:51:08 00:22:53:07
who who is interested is

00:22:53:08 00:22:54:11
feeling that this is something that

00:22:54:12 00:22:55:19
interests them, but that actually

00:22:56:15 00:22:57:17
they're feeling a bit unsure?

00:22:57:22 00:22:59:07
How have you been able to assuage

00:22:59:08 00:23:00:03
that?

00:23:00:04 00:23:01:16
So I think the other element

00:23:02:06 00:23:03:24
you hear is, I'm the CEO or I'm in

00:23:03:25 00:23:05:21
the management team, we want to do

00:23:05:22 00:23:07:04
this, but we're worried our

00:23:07:10 00:23:08:20
shareholders won't like it.

00:23:08:21 00:23:10:14
And for me, I say, well,

00:23:10:19 00:23:12:15
if you've got a competent

00:23:12:16 00:23:14:04
leadership group who go to their

00:23:14:10 00:23:16:09
shareholders and say, we want

00:23:16:10 00:23:17:20
to make this change, whether that's

00:23:17:21 00:23:19:03
becoming a B Corp, whether that's

00:23:19:04 00:23:20:17
supporting the Better Business Act,

00:23:21:01 00:23:22:07
it would be a pretty brave

00:23:22:13 00:23:24:13
shareholders that say, no,

00:23:24:22 00:23:26:16
we don't want our aligned leadership

00:23:26:19 00:23:27:24
group to follow that path.

00:23:27:25 00:23:29:01
We want them to follow a different

00:23:29:02 00:23:30:01
path. So I think if

00:23:31:05 00:23:33:06
you're truly passionate about

00:23:33:16 00:23:34:22
stepping forward in this new

00:23:34:23 00:23:36:03
direction of balancing people,

00:23:36:04 00:23:37:23
profit and planet, which I hope

00:23:38:05 00:23:40:06
an increasing number of people are,

00:23:40:07 00:23:41:24
and we're moving in that direction,

00:23:42:12 00:23:44:05
have the confidence to sort of step

00:23:44:06 00:23:45:19
forward into that space and take

00:23:46:03 00:23:47:10
the risks and talk to your

00:23:47:17 00:23:49:06
shareholders if you require that

00:23:49:08 00:23:50:07
before signing up.

00:23:50:08 00:23:52:02
Because as Amy will

00:23:52:03 00:23:53:18
talk to much more eloquently than

00:23:53:24 00:23:56:01
me, increasingly investors

00:23:56:02 00:23:57:02
want this as well.

00:23:57:10 00:23:59:20
So the risk are disappearing

00:23:59:21 00:24:01:02
with each day that passes, I would

00:24:01:03 00:24:01:23
say.

00:24:01:24 00:24:03:07
Amy, what's your view on that?

00:24:03:08 00:24:05:02
Risks that you see being discussed

00:24:05:20 00:24:07:20
amongst fellow investors actually on

00:24:07:21 00:24:09:07
this this particular

00:24:09:19 00:24:11:03
proposition in this particular

00:24:11:04 00:24:12:09
campaign? What risks have you

00:24:12:10 00:24:13:10
identified?

00:24:14:16 00:24:16:10
I'm sorry to sound a little bit like

00:24:16:11 00:24:17:20
a broken record

00:24:18:24 00:24:20:15
to follow Douglas, but there isn't

00:24:20:19 00:24:23:02
really any downside risk associated

00:24:23:11 00:24:24:09
with this.

00:24:24:10 00:24:25:22
The only downside risk is if it

00:24:26:05 00:24:27:05
doesn't happen,

00:24:28:00 00:24:29:03
what we then don't have

00:24:29:23 00:24:31:19
is, as I said, that rising tide that

00:24:31:20 00:24:33:09
raises all boats and makes it much

00:24:33:10 00:24:35:01
easier for investors to understand

00:24:35:10 00:24:36:16
the direction of travel for a

00:24:36:17 00:24:37:11
business.

00:24:37:12 00:24:38:23
In the absence of

00:24:40:15 00:24:42:10
uniform regulation that

00:24:42:14 00:24:44:07
covers very much the essence of

00:24:44:08 00:24:45:16
being a sustainable business,

00:24:46:07 00:24:47:20
it becomes very, very hard for us

00:24:48:05 00:24:49:11
to to work out which ones

00:24:50:04 00:24:52:02
are intentional and material

00:24:52:15 00:24:53:11
and which ones aren't.

00:24:53:12 00:24:55:08
And in that environment,

00:24:55:09 00:24:56:15
you end up getting a lot of

00:24:56:16 00:24:57:21
greenwashing, a lot of impact

00:24:57:25 00:24:59:22
washing, a lot of SDG washing.

00:25:00:06 00:25:02:24
You got a lot of presentation

00:25:03:00 00:25:04:20
of core business

00:25:04:21 00:25:06:13
as sustainable, which when you then

00:25:07:01 00:25:08:16
obviously do the due diligence, is

00:25:08:17 00:25:09:23
anything but sustainable.

00:25:10:08 00:25:11:24
So there isn't really, I think, a

00:25:12:00 00:25:13:11
downside associated with this.

00:25:14:00 00:25:15:08
I mean, to Douglas's point,

00:25:15:24 00:25:17:14
there are enough shareholders out

00:25:17:17 00:25:19:08
there now who understand what this

00:25:19:09 00:25:21:02
is about and understand that this is

00:25:21:03 00:25:22:12
future feting, increasing the

00:25:22:13 00:25:24:02
resilience of your investments long

00:25:24:03 00:25:26:02
term. It's about good investing,

00:25:26:03 00:25:27:22
identifying good businesses as well;

00:25:27:23 00:25:29:14
the businesses, as I said, that are

00:25:29:15 00:25:30:13
of today and tomorrow.

00:25:30:14 00:25:31:21
Consumers get it as well.

00:25:31:22 00:25:33:15
Consumers understand that we had

00:25:33:22 00:25:35:11
the survey that we did last year

00:25:35:12 00:25:36:13
ahead of this campaign.

00:25:36:20 00:25:38:07
Seventy five percent of the UK

00:25:38:14 00:25:40:14
public are ready for something like

00:25:40:15 00:25:41:18
this, and that's likely

00:25:42:19 00:25:44:13
to be played out in a lot of markets

00:25:44:18 00:25:45:18
around the world.

00:25:46:01 00:25:47:08
So we know consumers are ready for

00:25:47:09 00:25:49:09
this as well. And if I take my

00:25:49:21 00:25:51:12
my kind of clients,

00:25:51:25 00:25:53:13
my end audience, the people who

00:25:53:23 00:25:55:13
come to Tribe, the reason they're

00:25:55:16 00:25:56:24
coming to Tribe, the reason they

00:25:57:00 00:25:58:18
want to partner with us is because

00:25:58:19 00:26:00:05
in the absence of this regulation

00:26:00:06 00:26:01:20
and policy, we're pushing for it

00:26:01:21 00:26:02:16
anyway.

00:26:02:17 00:26:03:22
We're doing this with our core

00:26:03:23 00:26:04:24
investment thesis.

00:26:05:05 00:26:06:12
And this is what they want.

00:26:06:13 00:26:07:11
It's what they're ready for.

00:26:07:12 00:26:09:06
It's what it's the mechanism through

00:26:09:08 00:26:11:08
which they express their values

00:26:11:09 00:26:12:24
and their beliefs and the passion

00:26:13:00 00:26:14:04
for the change that they want to see

00:26:14:05 00:26:14:24
in the world.

00:26:15:00 00:26:16:14
So you have this nexus happening

00:26:16:15 00:26:18:15
between investors, business

00:26:18:16 00:26:20:10
leaders, consumers, wealth holders.

00:26:21:16 00:26:23:07
Everybody's coming together.

00:26:23:12 00:26:24:20
So I really don't genuinely

00:26:25:17 00:26:27:12
think there is a downside to getting

00:26:27:13 00:26:28:14
involved in this.

00:26:28:15 00:26:29:22
There is a downside in it not

00:26:29:23 00:26:30:23
happening.

00:26:31:19 00:26:33:15
But the more of us who step up

00:26:33:16 00:26:34:22
and lean in and create the

00:26:35:19 00:26:37:15
the unified voice for this, the more

00:26:37:16 00:26:39:01
likely it is that what will happen

00:26:39:02 00:26:40:12
and it will lead to great things.

00:26:41:05 00:26:42:12
Thanks so much, Amy, and I'm sure

00:26:42:13 00:26:44:09
we'll pick up more healthy debate

00:26:44:10 00:26:45:21
in Q&A. So, by all means, send

00:26:46:06 00:26:47:03
the questions through.

00:26:47:04 00:26:48:09
We're looking forward to making sure

00:26:48:10 00:26:49:17
we have time for that as well.

00:26:49:18 00:26:51:18
But if you're just joining us, this

00:26:51:19 00:26:53:15
is our Leadership in Extraordinary

00:26:53:16 00:26:54:21
Times event, which is put

00:26:55:12 00:26:57:00
together by our team here at the

00:26:57:01 00:26:58:19
University of Oxford's Said Business

00:26:58:20 00:26:59:19
School. I'm Mary Johnstone-Louis.

00:27:00:11 00:27:01:25
I'm a Senior Research Fellow here

00:27:02:00 00:27:03:23
and today's subject is focussing on

00:27:03:24 00:27:04:19
better business.

00:27:04:20 00:27:06:13
If you're just joining now, you'll

00:27:06:14 00:27:07:22
be learning very quickly that we're

00:27:07:23 00:27:09:04
specifically examining the

00:27:09:18 00:27:11:15
UK's Better Business Act.

00:27:11:16 00:27:12:21
And I'm joined by Douglas

00:27:13:11 00:27:15:16
about the CEO of Innocent Drinks

00:27:15:22 00:27:17:24
by Amy Clarke, who is Chief Impact

00:27:18:01 00:27:19:24
Officer at Tribe

00:27:20:04 00:27:21:21
Impact Capital, and Char Love, who

00:27:21:22 00:27:23:07
amongst many other roles, is

00:27:23:08 00:27:24:22
activist in residence at B LAb UK.

00:27:25:15 00:27:26:18
Char, over to you.

00:27:27:02 00:27:28:03
Oh, thanks, Mary.

00:27:28:04 00:27:29:25
And I'm just got pages of notes

00:27:29:26 00:27:31:15
and drawings from this last round

00:27:32:00 00:27:33:18
of questioning and this point about

00:27:33:24 00:27:35:08
the dangerous times, almost like

00:27:35:09 00:27:36:07
this question of what side of

00:27:36:08 00:27:37:14
history do we want to be on?

00:27:37:15 00:27:39:02
Is there something that I'm going to

00:27:39:03 00:27:40:08
sit with for a while?

00:27:41:01 00:27:42:01
But I want to move track a little

00:27:42:02 00:27:43:17
bit because we've actually just here

00:27:43:18 00:27:45:15
in the U.K. had the G7

00:27:45:25 00:27:47:05
down in Cornwall and many

00:27:48:04 00:27:49:17
eyes now I think are starting to

00:27:49:18 00:27:51:09
look towards COP 26, which is

00:27:51:13 00:27:53:03
the Global Climate Conference of

00:27:53:04 00:27:54:09
Parties, which is going to be taking

00:27:54:10 00:27:55:14
place in Glasgow

00:27:56:06 00:27:57:16
later on this year in November.

00:27:57:17 00:27:59:02
And so I guess I want to start with

00:27:59:03 00:27:59:24
you, Amy, if I may.

00:28:00:00 00:28:01:12
I wondered how you see the work

00:28:02:05 00:28:03:22
of the Better Business Act linking

00:28:04:16 00:28:05:19
to COP 26?

00:28:07:12 00:28:08:13
Well, I think if we look at what's

00:28:08:14 00:28:10:08
come out of COP 26, we've seen

00:28:11:06 00:28:12:21
uniform support for

00:28:13:24 00:28:16:14
a global threshold for corporation

00:28:16:24 00:28:17:24
tax.

00:28:18:01 00:28:20:01
Now we can debate, we can debate

00:28:20:02 00:28:21:10
probably until the cows come home,

00:28:21:11 00:28:22:11
whether it's been set at the right

00:28:22:12 00:28:23:09
level.

00:28:23:10 00:28:24:23
But for the first time in sort of

00:28:24:24 00:28:26:07
business and human history, we have

00:28:26:08 00:28:27:11
this unified global pact

00:28:28:14 00:28:29:24
to tackle the thorny issue of

00:28:30:07 00:28:31:07
corporate tax.

00:28:31:23 00:28:33:20
We've also seen a unified global

00:28:33:21 00:28:34:20
call for TCFD

00:28:35:16 00:28:36:18
and climate disclosure as well.

00:28:36:19 00:28:37:18
And this is where it starts to get,

00:28:37:19 00:28:38:18
I think, really interesting with

00:28:39:04 00:28:40:19
things, for example, like TCFD and

00:28:40:20 00:28:41:19
climate disclosure

00:28:42:16 00:28:43:20
and reporting.

00:28:44:04 00:28:46:00
One of the key tenets of BBA

00:28:46:01 00:28:47:05
is reporting.

00:28:47:11 00:28:49:05
Now as part of the announcement that

00:28:49:06 00:28:50:14
came out of G7, not only was

00:28:51:02 00:28:52:15
there wholesale obviously support

00:28:52:16 00:28:54:21
widespread support for deploying

00:28:54:22 00:28:56:17
the TCFD more widely,

00:28:56:21 00:28:58:22
and that's likely to go into the G20

00:28:59:12 00:29:00:08
this month or next month.

00:29:00:09 00:29:01:18
It's likely to go to the G20 anyway

00:29:01:19 00:29:03:02
and hopefully garner even more

00:29:03:03 00:29:04:02
support there.

00:29:04:13 00:29:06:02
But within that statement as well

00:29:06:03 00:29:07:17
was a call for support, sorry, a

00:29:07:22 00:29:09:12
call to support, even,

00:29:10:01 00:29:12:01
the work of IFRS Foundation

00:29:12:02 00:29:13:07
on uniform sustainability

00:29:13:22 00:29:15:07
reporting as well. And again, Char,

00:29:15:08 00:29:16:13
getting back to the role of the
accountants

00:29:16:14 00:29:18:02
in saving us from ourselves.

00:29:19:06 00:29:20:20
There's a huge, I think,

00:29:21:04 00:29:22:21
growing interest in the role of

00:29:22:22 00:29:24:23
accountancy as it links

00:29:24:24 00:29:26:03
to reporting.

00:29:26:11 00:29:27:24
But accountancy also links into

00:29:28:17 00:29:30:20
aligned stakeholders looking

00:29:30:21 00:29:32:18
at how do you cost in the true value

00:29:32:19 00:29:34:14
of doing business the true impact on

00:29:34:15 00:29:35:13
stakeholder communities?

00:29:35:14 00:29:36:18
How do you factor that into balance

00:29:36:19 00:29:37:17
sheet?

00:29:37:18 00:29:39:02
And again, this is all coming

00:29:39:06 00:29:40:10
through a head of COP.

00:29:40:17 00:29:41:19
So COP has, hopefully,

00:29:42:17 00:29:43:17
a huge

00:29:44:17 00:29:46:10
benefit for something like the BBA

00:29:46:11 00:29:47:21
in showcasing how the BBA can

00:29:48:10 00:29:50:01
sit alongside all of these different

00:29:50:02 00:29:51:21
calls for action, whether it's

00:29:51:22 00:29:53:15
corporate taxation sits within the

00:29:53:16 00:29:55:14
BBA to some degree,

00:29:55:16 00:29:57:13
whether it's for more uniform

00:29:57:14 00:29:58:15
reporting and disclosure.

00:29:58:16 00:30:00:09
Again, alignment with the BBA,

00:30:00:13 00:30:02:04
whether it's understanding climate

00:30:02:05 00:30:03:19
equity and climate justice again

00:30:04:03 00:30:05:10
sits within the BBA with

00:30:05:24 00:30:06:20
stakeholders.

00:30:06:21 00:30:07:20
There's a huge, huge

00:30:08:23 00:30:10:04
amount of crossover between what

00:30:10:05 00:30:11:23
we're doing with BBA and what has

00:30:11:24 00:30:13:11
been happening and what continues to

00:30:13:12 00:30:14:17
be discussed as part of the COP 26

00:30:16:05 00:30:17:16
run up to COP 26 and obviously

00:30:17:17 00:30:18:21
hopefully the negotiations later

00:30:18:22 00:30:21:11
this year. So the BBA,

00:30:21:15 00:30:23:09
I think for us as an investor, is

00:30:23:10 00:30:25:12
nothing but supportive and

00:30:25:15 00:30:27:00
additive to the conversations

00:30:27:01 00:30:28:10
already underway on climate.

00:30:29:00 00:30:29:23
Great.

00:30:29:24 00:30:31:02
Douglas, can I come to you because

00:30:31:03 00:30:32:21
I'd be curious your views on, again,

00:30:32:22 00:30:34:17
the link and how you see building

00:30:34:18 00:30:35:25
on what Amy's just sort of shared

00:30:36:16 00:30:37:16
the Better Business Act really

00:30:37:19 00:30:39:08
fitting within sort of the road to

00:30:39:09 00:30:40:20
COP 26 and what we hope to see

00:30:41:00 00:30:42:06
happen here in the UK.

00:30:42:16 00:30:44:11
Yeah, I think with all these

00:30:44:16 00:30:45:23
big events, there's obviously a lot

00:30:45:24 00:30:46:23
this pre-programmed.

00:30:47:07 00:30:48:16
But I think where they're really

00:30:48:17 00:30:50:19
helpful is bringing a sense

00:30:50:20 00:30:52:05
of urgency in terms of what's

00:30:52:19 00:30:54:20
required. So obviously,

00:30:54:22 00:30:56:17
COP 26 and the focus on the

00:30:56:18 00:30:58:15
environment, an absolute

00:30:58:16 00:30:59:14
essential element of what we're

00:30:59:15 00:31:00:09
trying to do with the Better

00:31:00:10 00:31:02:13
Business Act and why Nigel Topping,

00:31:02:14 00:31:04:02
who is basically organising the

00:31:04:03 00:31:05:18
whole event and the kind of chief

00:31:05:23 00:31:07:13
champion of it from a UK government

00:31:07:14 00:31:09:12
perspective is out there saying

00:31:09:17 00:31:11:02
he thinks the Better Business Act

00:31:11:16 00:31:12:24
should be supported and is a good

00:31:13:00 00:31:14:15
thing and and we need to make it

00:31:14:16 00:31:15:15
happen.

00:31:15:21 00:31:17:20
For us it's a great opportunity to

00:31:17:21 00:31:19:15
kind of get visibility and get

00:31:19:16 00:31:21:03
urgency about these changes, as

00:31:21:13 00:31:23:05
well as obviously support the wider

00:31:23:14 00:31:25:02
initiatives around COP twenty six in

00:31:25:03 00:31:26:13
terms of the specifics of climate

00:31:26:14 00:31:27:21
change, the Better Business

00:31:28:14 00:31:30:03
Act goes slightly wider than that in

00:31:30:04 00:31:31:02
terms of the change we're looking

00:31:31:03 00:31:33:00
for. But yeah, I think they

00:31:33:01 00:31:34:11
just it's just helped with G7

00:31:35:08 00:31:37:05
and COP 26 in the UK this year to

00:31:37:12 00:31:39:09
create that sense of urgency, but

00:31:39:13 00:31:41:13
also see the increasing

00:31:41:14 00:31:43:04
number of voices that are coming out

00:31:43:05 00:31:44:22
from business in support of all the

00:31:44:24 00:31:46:04
various different initiatives.

00:31:46:11 00:31:47:18
As Amy says, we're getting

00:31:48:12 00:31:49:07
momentum here.

00:31:49:08 00:31:50:13
This is now about speed.

00:31:51:04 00:31:53:07
Yes, I love this idea of both speed

00:31:53:08 00:31:54:05
and momentum.

00:31:54:06 00:31:55:16
And how do we activate on it?

00:31:56:05 00:31:57:21
Well, and as as some of you may

00:31:57:22 00:31:59:17
know, at B Lab, one of the big

00:32:00:06 00:32:02:03
COP 26 activations that we're in the

00:32:02:04 00:32:04:01
process of planning is

00:32:04:06 00:32:05:12
an activation campaign called

00:32:05:13 00:32:07:06
Boardroom 2030, where we're inviting

00:32:07:10 00:32:09:04
companies, B Corps and non B Corps,

00:32:09:19 00:32:11:13
around the world to host a boardroom

00:32:11:16 00:32:13:02
meeting as if it were in 2030.

00:32:13:13 00:32:14:21
And that will include really having

00:32:14:22 00:32:16:07
to think through like who is around

00:32:16:08 00:32:17:12
the table, who are your board

00:32:17:13 00:32:19:22
members, what is on the agenda,

00:32:20:07 00:32:21:21
how are decisions being made and

00:32:22:04 00:32:23:10
what rules are needing to be

00:32:23:11 00:32:24:06
followed?

00:32:24:07 00:32:25:21
And I wondered if you'd both just

00:32:25:22 00:32:27:00
sort of share a few sort of

00:32:27:01 00:32:28:25
reflections and a little bit on

00:32:29:06 00:32:30:10
imagining what you think

00:32:31:05 00:32:32:24
boardrooms in 2030 are going to look

00:32:33:03 00:32:34:18
like. And maybe, Amy, can I start

00:32:35:00 00:32:36:19
with you? What does what does a

00:32:36:20 00:32:38:02
boardroom look like in 2030?

00:32:39:05 00:32:40:20
Well, I hope are radically different

00:32:40:21 00:32:42:03
to the way that a boardroom

00:32:42:22 00:32:43:25
looks, something that goes without

00:32:44:00 00:32:45:00
saying.

00:32:46:10 00:32:47:24
2030 boardroom has really got to

00:32:48:04 00:32:50:13
reflect the society

00:32:50:14 00:32:51:21
that we live, work and play

00:32:52:16 00:32:53:16
in.

00:32:53:18 00:32:55:14
And as

00:32:55:15 00:32:57:12
a as a businesswoman,

00:32:57:17 00:32:59:19
looking at boards

00:32:59:20 00:33:01:12
on a regular basis, obviously, as an

00:33:01:13 00:33:03:14
investor, you

00:33:03:23 00:33:05:05
you need to have diversity

00:33:06:04 00:33:07:25
represented in all forms

00:33:08:00 00:33:09:04
within that board.

00:33:09:05 00:33:11:08
It's not just gender diversity.

00:33:11:11 00:33:12:25
It's ethnic diversity.

00:33:13:05 00:33:15:04
It's socioeconomic diversity,

00:33:15:10 00:33:17:23
cognitive neurological diversity.

00:33:18:11 00:33:19:23
Obviously, there's age diversity as

00:33:19:24 00:33:21:01
well. You and I, Char, have spoken

00:33:21:02 00:33:22:01
at length about

00:33:22:22 00:33:25:05
the need to get the next generation

00:33:25:06 00:33:27:03
through onto these boards as well,

00:33:27:04 00:33:28:11
equip them to be able to

00:33:29:20 00:33:31:04
understand how to work at board

00:33:31:05 00:33:32:04
level, what we need to get them

00:33:32:05 00:33:32:24
through.

00:33:33:00 00:33:35:07
You need to be reflecting

00:33:35:08 00:33:37:03
your stakeholders

00:33:37:04 00:33:38:04
on your board.

00:33:38:11 00:33:39:22
Now, you also need to be reflecting

00:33:39:23 00:33:41:09
the core skills and talent and

00:33:41:13 00:33:42:21
experience that is required

00:33:43:20 00:33:45:09
to be able to really advise that

00:33:45:10 00:33:46:08
company. And I had a really

00:33:46:09 00:33:47:04
interesting conversation with

00:33:47:05 00:33:48:04
somebody the other day who was
talking

00:33:48:05 00:33:49:04
about expertise.

00:33:49:10 00:33:50:13
And obviously what you need is

00:33:50:14 00:33:51:15
expertise on a board.

00:33:51:22 00:33:53:13
You do, but you can't have expertise

00:33:53:14 00:33:55:02
without lived-in experience.

00:33:55:03 00:33:56:11
You've got to have that lived-in

00:33:56:12 00:33:57:13
experience. And I think at the

00:33:57:14 00:33:58:19
moment what we're finding with a lot

00:33:58:20 00:33:59:19
of boards is we may

00:34:00:19 00:34:02:10
on paper have sort of the

00:34:02:11 00:34:03:19
traditional white collar, been to

00:34:03:20 00:34:05:16
all the necessary universities, got

00:34:05:17 00:34:06:22
all the necessary diplomas.

00:34:07:03 00:34:08:09
Have they actually got the lived-in

00:34:08:10 00:34:09:24
experience of what that company's

00:34:10:05 00:34:11:10
core product and service is

00:34:11:11 00:34:13:10
ultimately, A, tackling,

00:34:13:13 00:34:15:06
or, B, what that company is exposed

00:34:15:10 00:34:17:06
to? No, they don't.

00:34:17:15 00:34:18:17
So it's it's diversity

00:34:19:19 00:34:21:03
in all forms, including that

00:34:21:07 00:34:22:19
lived-in experience and being able

00:34:22:20 00:34:24:08
to ensure that your board really

00:34:24:13 00:34:26:13
understands the footprint

00:34:26:14 00:34:28:06
that your business has and also has

00:34:28:12 00:34:29:16
the experience of working with the

00:34:29:17 00:34:30:22
solutions to tackle those

00:34:30:23 00:34:31:22
footprints.

00:34:32:12 00:34:34:08
So I can't tell you exactly

00:34:34:09 00:34:35:20
what it's going to look like, but I,

00:34:35:22 00:34:36:22
I know

00:34:37:24 00:34:39:15
the mechanisms and I think and the

00:34:39:22 00:34:41:21
the the criteria that I'm

00:34:41:22 00:34:43:06
looking for. And it's exactly what

00:34:43:07 00:34:44:06
I've just outlined.

00:34:44:19 00:34:45:19
Beautiful.

00:34:45:20 00:34:47:04
Thank you. And I think is going to

00:34:47:05 00:34:48:18
be really interesting to see how a

00:34:48:19 00:34:50:11
lot of different businesses address

00:34:50:20 00:34:51:19
some of these questions.

00:34:51:20 00:34:52:25
And really this one lived

00:34:53:00 00:34:54:06
experience, I think is going to be

00:34:54:07 00:34:55:04
quite critical.

00:34:55:05 00:34:56:04
To mention one of the other sort of

00:34:56:05 00:34:57:15
creative questions that's coming up

00:34:57:22 00:34:58:24
as we sort of start talking to

00:34:59:00 00:35:00:06
businesses about hosting a

00:35:00:21 00:35:02:18
Boardroom 2030 meeting is also where

00:35:02:19 00:35:03:15
those meetings happen.

00:35:03:16 00:35:04:21
Are we going to see board meetings

00:35:04:22 00:35:05:21
happen underwater or

00:35:06:17 00:35:08:04
are we going to see them in forests

00:35:08:05 00:35:09:15
or are we going to see them in
schools?

00:35:09:16 00:35:10:14
So there's really a lot of

00:35:10:15 00:35:11:25
interesting scope to explore some of

00:35:11:26 00:35:13:08
these issues, sort of using a

00:35:13:09 00:35:15:00
creative imagination approach.

00:35:15:16 00:35:17:07
Douglas, I wondered if I could come

00:35:17:08 00:35:18:12
to you with this question.

00:35:18:22 00:35:20:11
What do you think a boardroom is

00:35:20:13 00:35:21:13
going to look like in 2030?

00:35:23:02 00:35:24:21
I think building on Amy's point

00:35:25:00 00:35:26:10
and something that we are thinking a

00:35:26:11 00:35:27:24
lot more about, how do we listen

00:35:28:04 00:35:29:04
better?

00:35:29:13 00:35:31:07
So I think it's been - it's very

00:35:31:08 00:35:33:06
easy as business leaders, you take

00:35:33:07 00:35:34:24
your experience, you take the issues

00:35:35:00 00:35:36:11
at hand that you think are the

00:35:36:14 00:35:38:07
issues, and you just kind of get on

00:35:38:08 00:35:39:09
and make decisions and try and

00:35:39:24 00:35:41:16
inject some pace into,

00:35:41:22 00:35:43:01
you know, how your company is

00:35:43:02 00:35:44:10
performing. I think the sort

00:35:44:25 00:35:46:15
of Black Lives Matter activity of

00:35:46:17 00:35:48:08
the last 12 months has really taught

00:35:48:09 00:35:49:17
me slowing down a little and

00:35:49:19 00:35:51:17
listening a little more is good for

00:35:51:18 00:35:53:03
business and making sure that

00:35:53:14 00:35:55:04
those voices of all those different

00:35:55:05 00:35:57:05
types of stakeholders are listened

00:35:57:06 00:35:58:06
to, represented in

00:35:59:07 00:36:00:17
that decision, doing some good

00:36:00:18 00:36:02:15
listening before siding from a wider

00:36:02:16 00:36:03:22
group rather than the six

00:36:04:12 00:36:05:24
or seven people that sit around you

00:36:06:07 00:36:07:12
on a day to day basis and

00:36:08:10 00:36:09:10
cheer you on as CEO

00:36:10:15 00:36:11:24
is, I think, going to be the

00:36:12:00 00:36:13:16
fundamental difference from now

00:36:13:17 00:36:14:17
until 2030.

00:36:14:19 00:36:16:09
And I think investors will insist

00:36:16:17 00:36:18:02
on it, employees will insist

00:36:18:14 00:36:19:25
on it. And the power of employees,

00:36:20:19 00:36:22:05
fortunately, goes up with every day

00:36:22:06 00:36:24:03
that passes. I think employees have

00:36:24:04 00:36:25:20
a louder voice than they realise

00:36:25:21 00:36:27:13
inside companies and and will learn

00:36:27:21 00:36:29:12
how to use it more effectively as

00:36:29:13 00:36:30:24
well. So whether that's shadow

00:36:31:04 00:36:32:13
boards merging into kind of a

00:36:32:14 00:36:33:23
blended boards, I think will

00:36:34:11 00:36:35:06
be really important.

00:36:35:07 00:36:36:21
I can't see us doing underwater,

00:36:37:04 00:36:38:20
I have to say, by 2030,

00:36:39:01 00:36:40:22
but maybe 2050 for

00:36:40:23 00:36:41:23
that. But

00:36:42:19 00:36:44:06
some things don't change as quickly

00:36:44:07 00:36:45:10
as you would imagine. If you only

00:36:45:11 00:36:47:03
look if you look back to 2015

00:36:49:17 00:36:50:18
it's still tea, biscuits and cake
round the table.

00:36:50:19 00:36:52:11
Well, fair enough to that.

00:36:52:16 00:36:54:10
I guess I'm just trying to channel

00:36:54:24 00:36:56:00
Amy wearing a wet suit

00:36:57:01 00:36:58:01
and there is a place

00:36:58:23 00:37:00:12
that I could go in the next

00:37:01:16 00:37:02:16
nine or eight years. But you're

00:37:02:17 00:37:03:12
right, I think there's going to be

00:37:03:13 00:37:05:01
sort of a range of questions we can

00:37:05:02 00:37:06:22
ask. And I think 2030 is one

00:37:06:23 00:37:08:04
question, but actually thinking 2050

00:37:08:19 00:37:10:04
might be another. Oh, a whole other

00:37:10:05 00:37:11:12
set of boardroom activations we

00:37:11:13 00:37:12:13
think about.

00:37:12:18 00:37:13:18
So thank you both.

00:37:13:25 00:37:14:20
At this stage. I think I'm going to

00:37:14:21 00:37:15:25
turn it over to you, Mary, because I

00:37:16:00 00:37:17:04
think you've been keeping an eye on

00:37:17:05 00:37:18:11
sort of some of the excellent

00:37:18:12 00:37:19:24
questions that have been coming in

00:37:20:00 00:37:21:18
through through the chat function.

00:37:22:14 00:37:23:10
Absolutely.

00:37:23:11 00:37:24:14
No, it's been a really, really

00:37:24:15 00:37:26:04
dynamic chat, which is exactly what

00:37:26:05 00:37:27:14
we want. So keep them coming in no

00:37:27:15 00:37:28:18
matter where you are in the world,

00:37:29:04 00:37:30:23
put them into the platform of your

00:37:30:24 00:37:32:06
choice. And I think there's

00:37:32:21 00:37:34:11
one theme that we really need to

00:37:34:12 00:37:35:18
address head on, which is coming

00:37:35:19 00:37:36:15
through quite clearly.

00:37:36:16 00:37:37:18
I'm going to pick up the question

00:37:37:19 00:37:38:22
from Andy Hawkins.

00:37:39:05 00:37:40:14
And just to paraphrase, he's

00:37:41:02 00:37:42:08
saying the early adopters

00:37:43:02 00:37:44:16
of this approach to business and

00:37:44:20 00:37:46:04
within that we might include B Corps

00:37:46:15 00:37:48:03
as well as others are fabulous.

00:37:49:03 00:37:50:21
But respond that his question is,

00:37:50:22 00:37:52:08
don't they represent a minority

00:37:52:09 00:37:53:10
view? How do you - how

00:37:54:09 00:37:55:09
does the BBA get out

00:37:56:06 00:37:57:24
of what we could call an echo

00:37:58:00 00:37:59:10
chamber and really become

00:37:59:11 00:38:01:01
mainstream? So this is a question

00:38:01:13 00:38:03:01
really, I think for for Douglas

00:38:03:12 00:38:05:08
primarily and also for you, Amy,

00:38:05:10 00:38:07:07
around, what have you seen around

00:38:07:08 00:38:09:04
trying to make these messages

00:38:09:09 00:38:11:05
more palatable, more exciting,

00:38:11:06 00:38:13:04
more engaging for a wider range

00:38:13:05 00:38:14:05
of audiences?

00:38:14:16 00:38:16:18
Yeah, I totally agree.

00:38:16:19 00:38:18:18
I mean, we definitely need to break

00:38:18:24 00:38:19:22
the echo chamber.

00:38:19:23 00:38:21:10
And one of the key principles here

00:38:21:11 00:38:23:07
is that this becomes the default

00:38:23:08 00:38:24:24
for everybody, because when I talk

00:38:25:01 00:38:26:24
to a wide, wide group

00:38:27:00 00:38:28:13
of different types of leaders of all

00:38:28:14 00:38:30:12
different types of companies is not

00:38:30:13 00:38:31:18
usually that their intent isn't

00:38:31:20 00:38:33:11
there is they don't know where to

00:38:33:15 00:38:35:12
begin or how to start acting or

00:38:35:13 00:38:37:02
or having having the board meetings

00:38:37:11 00:38:39:05
or, you know, in the

00:38:39:12 00:38:40:14
case of small companies, it's not

00:38:40:15 00:38:41:14
that formal in terms of the

00:38:41:15 00:38:43:13
discussions about how they do things

00:38:43:14 00:38:45:05
differently. So so I think the

00:38:45:16 00:38:47:04
the Better Business Act is is a

00:38:47:07 00:38:49:02
foundational piece

00:38:49:09 00:38:50:09
that then it creates

00:38:51:14 00:38:52:19
an environment where people have to

00:38:52:20 00:38:53:19
think differently.

00:38:53:24 00:38:55:07
You start behaving differently and

00:38:55:08 00:38:56:23
then what needs to follow and come

00:38:56:24 00:38:58:15
alongside all that is the tools and

00:38:58:16 00:39:00:05
the support and the techniques of

00:39:00:14 00:39:02:14
how you do that better as a small

00:39:02:15 00:39:03:24
company, as a medium sized company,

00:39:04:00 00:39:05:22
as a big multinational.

00:39:05:23 00:39:07:23
So, you know, and I saw a question

00:39:07:24 00:39:09:16
earlier about, you know, is it good

00:39:09:17 00:39:11:03
that you have these things called B

00:39:11:06 00:39:12:14
Corps that sort of sit as unique

00:39:12:24 00:39:13:24
companies?

00:39:14:08 00:39:15:14
Nothing would please me better if

00:39:15:15 00:39:17:03
everybody followed really, really

00:39:17:04 00:39:18:07
high standards. And that was the

00:39:18:08 00:39:19:23
standard that was the law.

00:39:20:02 00:39:21:17
And B Corps didn't have to exist.

00:39:21:20 00:39:23:19
All we're trying to do as B Corps or

00:39:23:25 00:39:25:07
campaigning for the Better Business

00:39:25:08 00:39:27:08
Act is shift where

00:39:27:09 00:39:28:24
the mainstream are to a slightly

00:39:29:06 00:39:30:04
different place.

00:39:30:05 00:39:31:21
So I'm not trying to create unique

00:39:31:22 00:39:32:21
clubs. I think everyone in B Corp

00:39:33:22 00:39:35:12
would love B Corp not to exist,

00:39:35:13 00:39:37:19
exist to prove that sustainable

00:39:37:20 00:39:39:15
capitalism is a successful model

00:39:39:23 00:39:41:07
in order to encourage others to

00:39:41:08 00:39:42:24
follow, not to kind of create high

00:39:43:05 00:39:44:11
walls and block others out.

00:39:44:12 00:39:45:23
So we're trying to democratise

00:39:46:20 00:39:48:21
this. Yes, we're at the front

00:39:48:22 00:39:50:22
end of it. But but I'm

00:39:50:23 00:39:52:03
reaching my hand back to say,

00:39:52:25 00:39:54:11
how can we bring everybody with us,

00:39:54:12 00:39:56:06
I guess is the intent that we have

00:39:56:23 00:39:58:15
if we're seen as elitist or unique

00:39:59:04 00:40:01:08
or the one percent, that's not great

00:40:01:11 00:40:03:08
because everybody needs to change.

00:40:03:09 00:40:04:20
It isn't being good on its own

00:40:05:07 00:40:06:07
is pointless.

00:40:06:10 00:40:07:19
It doesn't create the change that we

00:40:07:20 00:40:09:04
need. I think the urgency of

00:40:09:15 00:40:11:18
change will hopefully

00:40:11:19 00:40:12:23
come through. Now, it's different

00:40:12:24 00:40:14:09
from a pandemic where it's right in

00:40:14:10 00:40:15:10
front of your eyes.

00:40:15:14 00:40:17:10
But a climate crisis and

00:40:17:22 00:40:19:04
other inequalities in the world, I

00:40:19:05 00:40:20:07
think, are going to start to cause

00:40:20:08 00:40:21:12
very, very visible problems that

00:40:22:17 00:40:24:21
will make everybody and

00:40:24:22 00:40:27:02
hopefully mainstream companies or

00:40:27:06 00:40:28:17
the 50 percent, 60 percent of

00:40:28:18 00:40:30:06
companies know that we've got to do

00:40:30:07 00:40:31:06
things differently.

00:40:31:14 00:40:33:03
And the war for talent will

00:40:33:14 00:40:35:06
also drive some of that as well,

00:40:35:14 00:40:37:22
because more and more individuals

00:40:37:23 00:40:39:06
are choosing the type of company

00:40:39:07 00:40:40:06
they want to work for.

00:40:40:12 00:40:41:25
And that change is coming fast.

00:40:42:08 00:40:43:20
And and therefore,

00:40:44:05 00:40:45:16
you know, companies will follow

00:40:45:17 00:40:46:16
that.

00:40:46:21 00:40:48:04
Well, thanks so much, and I think

00:40:48:05 00:40:49:14
what we're picking up on is also a

00:40:49:15 00:40:50:20
question that's coming to us from

00:40:50:21 00:40:52:06
India. This is from Trish Sharma.

00:40:52:21 00:40:53:23
Thanks so much for your question,

00:40:53:24 00:40:55:12
Trish. And it's around this idea

00:40:55:14 00:40:56:20
that initiatives like the

00:40:57:14 00:40:59:24
BBA are a systemic

00:41:00:00 00:41:01:22
approach to looking at a problem as

00:41:01:23 00:41:03:14
opposed to, for example, a company,

00:41:03:15 00:41:05:11
individual-led approach to

00:41:05:12 00:41:06:12
looking at a problem.

00:41:06:17 00:41:07:21
And so what I think that Trish

00:41:08:18 00:41:10:10
is picking up in her question is

00:41:10:19 00:41:12:20
the issue of collaboration and

00:41:12:23 00:41:14:08
what has been your experience

00:41:15:01 00:41:16:18
or what do you see as the future of

00:41:16:19 00:41:18:22
collaboration between business

00:41:18:23 00:41:20:10
and, for example, civil society

00:41:20:13 00:41:22:04
organisations, NGOs?

00:41:22:11 00:41:24:02
What kind of collaborations do you

00:41:24:03 00:41:25:15
think will be required in order

00:41:25:25 00:41:27:14
to meet some of the achievements

00:41:28:01 00:41:29:11
and some of the goals that the BBA

00:41:29:12 00:41:30:23
sets to achieve?

00:41:31:19 00:41:32:19
Amy, go ahead, please.

00:41:32:20 00:41:33:22
I was going to say, I think I think

00:41:33:23 00:41:35:02
one of the really interesting things

00:41:35:03 00:41:37:00
that has come through in

00:41:37:01 00:41:38:08
the last few years is this notion of

00:41:38:09 00:41:39:11
corporate social venturing

00:41:40:11 00:41:42:21
and a shift in that dynamic between

00:41:43:03 00:41:44:05
the sort of the philanthropic

00:41:44:06 00:41:45:23
relationships that you - that we

00:41:45:24 00:41:47:11
have had historically between the

00:41:47:12 00:41:48:12
charity world and

00:41:49:08 00:41:50:24
the business world. And this to your

00:41:51:00 00:41:51:23
point, Mary, this sense of

00:41:51:24 00:41:53:11
collaboration and partnership and

00:41:53:12 00:41:54:19
really understanding what that can

00:41:54:20 00:41:55:20
lead to.

00:41:56:21 00:41:58:18
You know, we're seeing, for example,

00:41:58:23 00:42:00:07
in the investment space, we're

00:42:00:08 00:42:01:07
seeing some very

00:42:02:05 00:42:03:23
interesting tie ups between

00:42:04:03 00:42:05:19
very well-known social enterprises

00:42:06:13 00:42:08:19
and charities and fund managers,

00:42:09:06 00:42:10:18
you know, bringing the charity

00:42:11:14 00:42:12:19
stroke the social enterprise,

00:42:12:25 00:42:15:03
bringing their expertise of whatever

00:42:15:04 00:42:17:12
social or environmental

00:42:17:13 00:42:19:03
or economic issue that they may have

00:42:19:04 00:42:20:21
the expertise in bringing that to

00:42:20:22 00:42:21:19
the fore to say if you want to

00:42:21:20 00:42:23:17
tackle this issue and you want

00:42:23:18 00:42:25:07
to bring the might of the public

00:42:25:10 00:42:27:01
marketplace to helping tackle this

00:42:27:07 00:42:29:05
issue, let's work out how

00:42:29:06 00:42:30:20
we can collaborate in creating an

00:42:31:02 00:42:32:19
investment vehicle that focuses on

00:42:32:20 00:42:34:15
those businesses who do get it,

00:42:34:16 00:42:36:11
who are tackling it, who are

00:42:36:12 00:42:37:21
creating those solutions.

00:42:38:03 00:42:39:19
This is already happening and we're

00:42:39:20 00:42:41:03
seeing corporate social venturing

00:42:41:04 00:42:42:20
now, I think start to seep out and

00:42:42:21 00:42:44:21
become - it's not mainstream, but

00:42:44:22 00:42:46:15
I think it will become mainstream in

00:42:46:22 00:42:48:07
redefining that relationship,

00:42:48:20 00:42:49:20
which I think has always been quite

00:42:49:21 00:42:50:20
- it's

00:42:51:17 00:42:52:21
been an unhealthy relationship.

00:42:52:22 00:42:54:17
I think sometimes when you look at

00:42:55:16 00:42:56:25
the way that business and charities

00:42:57:00 00:42:58:10
often often partner,

00:42:59:08 00:43:00:14
you know, this has got to be a

00:43:00:15 00:43:02:16
partnership of equals, recognising

00:43:02:17 00:43:04:08
that those on the front line, those

00:43:04:09 00:43:05:25
NGOs, those social enterprises,

00:43:06:06 00:43:08:08
have real gold

00:43:08:15 00:43:10:05
in the insights and the knowledge

00:43:10:06 00:43:11:06
they have around those

00:43:11:07 00:43:12:19
disenfranchised or marginalised

00:43:12:21 00:43:14:15
communities or fractured ecosystems.

00:43:15:05 00:43:16:15
They know what works.

00:43:16:16 00:43:18:06
They know how to create solutions

00:43:18:17 00:43:19:15
for this.

00:43:19:16 00:43:21:05
And if those solutions sit in your

00:43:21:06 00:43:22:18
supply chain, as in the problem

00:43:23:01 00:43:24:09
that is being created, sits in your

00:43:24:10 00:43:25:20
supply chain, whether it's upstream

00:43:25:21 00:43:27:23
or downstream, then this isn't

00:43:28:01 00:43:29:09
a philanthropic partnership

00:43:30:00 00:43:31:00
or relationship.

00:43:31:07 00:43:32:20
This is a solutions based

00:43:32:21 00:43:34:07
partnership that fundamentally

00:43:34:08 00:43:35:18
tackles how you run your business

00:43:35:19 00:43:36:16
and what your core product and

00:43:36:17 00:43:38:02
service does, and that recodes,

00:43:38:21 00:43:40:18
I think, the relationship massively

00:43:40:23 00:43:42:17
and then leads to hopefully

00:43:42:21 00:43:44:11
knock on effects within how your

00:43:44:12 00:43:46:08
broader stakeholders as a business

00:43:46:14 00:43:47:16
then look at what it is that you're

00:43:47:17 00:43:49:07
doing. So Trish's question is

00:43:49:08 00:43:50:13
brilliant. And it's a really, really

00:43:50:14 00:43:52:13
good question, because we do now,

00:43:52:14 00:43:54:02
I think, need to inhabit a world

00:43:54:09 00:43:55:19
where there is more corporate social

00:43:55:20 00:43:57:06
venture, there's more equality

00:43:57:12 00:43:59:07
between charity and business.

00:43:59:13 00:44:00:20
The end of the day, we are all

00:44:00:21 00:44:01:20
businesses, whether

00:44:02:18 00:44:04:00
it's the difference in how we

00:44:04:01 00:44:05:23
utilise and treat our profits,

00:44:06:13 00:44:07:20
but we're all trying to be

00:44:08:05 00:44:09:17
successful at what it is that we do

00:44:09:18 00:44:11:07
and we all have our unique insights

00:44:11:08 00:44:12:11
and gifts that we can bring.

00:44:13:07 00:44:14:09
So for me, I think

00:44:15:02 00:44:16:09
CSV is going to be very, very

00:44:16:10 00:44:17:11
interesting over the next few years

00:44:17:12 00:44:18:12
to see where that takes us.

00:44:19:09 00:44:20:09
Corporate social venturing.

00:44:20:10 00:44:21:10
Thanks so much, Amy.

00:44:21:11 00:44:23:03
And it reminds me of something that

00:44:23:04 00:44:23:24
I heard.

00:44:24:00 00:44:25:13
Char, I'll pull you in here to have

00:44:25:14 00:44:26:11
you share a little bit of your

00:44:26:12 00:44:27:25
perspective on something called the

00:44:27:26 00:44:29:08
movement of movements, which I think

00:44:29:09 00:44:30:20
is very connected to the question

00:44:31:08 00:44:32:02
that Trish is asking.

00:44:32:03 00:44:32:25
If you could share a little bit

00:44:33:00 00:44:34:12
about that in response to this

00:44:34:20 00:44:36:01
question that was raised.

00:44:36:14 00:44:38:05
Yeah, and it's a great question and

00:44:38:10 00:44:40:02
and just great to hear, Amy, your

00:44:40:06 00:44:41:20
reflections on on corporate social

00:44:41:21 00:44:43:07
venturing. It's great to hear from

00:44:43:08 00:44:44:13
your perspective as an investor

00:44:44:14 00:44:46:01
where you're seeing that become

00:44:46:08 00:44:47:23
increasingly part of the

00:44:47:24 00:44:48:23
conversation.

00:44:49:03 00:44:50:11
And Mary, yes to the point about the

00:44:50:12 00:44:51:14
movement of movements. I mean, this

00:44:51:15 00:44:53:11
was very much inspired by

00:44:53:12 00:44:54:19
some of the work you did a few years

00:44:54:20 00:44:55:20
ago, on in pursuit

00:44:56:17 00:44:57:22
of inclusive capitalism.

00:44:58:04 00:44:59:16
And it's just recognising, actually,

00:44:59:17 00:45:01:15
that there are a series of of of

00:45:01:16 00:45:02:12
levers that we know are

00:45:02:13 00:45:04:09
interventions that will

00:45:04:10 00:45:06:06
be needed to be pulled in order

00:45:06:07 00:45:08:00
to drive these systemic changes that

00:45:08:03 00:45:09:22
we've been talking about today and

00:45:09:23 00:45:11:00
actually recognising that one of the

00:45:11:01 00:45:12:13
things we can do to really work

00:45:13:01 00:45:14:17
on the speed and strength and

00:45:14:18 00:45:16:02
urgency pulling those levers

00:45:16:25 00:45:18:10
is find new ways to collaborate.

00:45:18:11 00:45:20:04
And that might be with collaborating

00:45:20:05 00:45:21:22
with people who have a similar view

00:45:21:23 00:45:23:11
of what system intervention they

00:45:23:12 00:45:24:11
want to be activating,

00:45:25:08 00:45:26:11
but might be coming from different

00:45:26:12 00:45:27:24
sectors and might be coming from

00:45:28:00 00:45:29:12
different movement organisations.

00:45:29:13 00:45:30:24
But the more important uniting

00:45:31:03 00:45:32:18
forces, the change that they want

00:45:33:02 00:45:34:07
to see happen.

00:45:34:21 00:45:36:03
So I think a really important step

00:45:36:04 00:45:37:24
to doing that is, is to map where

00:45:37:25 00:45:39:16
these interventions are, who's

00:45:39:17 00:45:41:12
working on it and busting down

00:45:41:13 00:45:43:04
sort of some of the silos that can

00:45:43:06 00:45:45:02
exist and really actively

00:45:45:03 00:45:47:10
finding ways, in doing this mapping,

00:45:48:11 00:45:49:10
identifying where those

00:45:49:11 00:45:50:23
opportunities for collaboration

00:45:51:03 00:45:52:03
exist.

00:45:52:08 00:45:53:17
So I would say if people are

00:45:53:18 00:45:54:16
interested in this, to actually

00:45:54:17 00:45:56:03
check out some of your research that

00:45:56:04 00:45:58:06
you did a few years ago around

00:45:58:07 00:45:59:10
this in pursuit of inclusive

00:45:59:11 00:46:00:24
capitalism that starts mapping out

00:46:01:00 00:46:02:21
these levers and

00:46:02:22 00:46:04:20
again, looking quite actively for

00:46:04:24 00:46:06:10
the types of partners you can work

00:46:06:11 00:46:07:25
with that might be different ones

00:46:08:05 00:46:09:07
than you've traditionally worked

00:46:09:08 00:46:10:19
with, but reflect this sort of

00:46:10:23 00:46:12:16
spectrum of different organisations

00:46:12:19 00:46:13:19
and sectors.

00:46:13:23 00:46:14:22
Thanks so much, Char.

00:46:14:23 00:46:16:01
Anything else that you would add,

00:46:16:07 00:46:17:03
Douglas, on that particular

00:46:17:04 00:46:18:04
collaboration question?

00:46:19:04 00:46:21:12
No, I think increasing

00:46:21:17 00:46:22:16
what you'll also see is

00:46:22:17 00:46:24:08
collaboration between companies and

00:46:24:15 00:46:25:11
we're already seeing it.

00:46:25:12 00:46:27:04
So, you know, from our perspective,

00:46:27:05 00:46:29:05
we're building what I hope will be

00:46:29:19 00:46:31:03
the world's most sustainable food

00:46:31:04 00:46:32:11
and drink manufacturing site in

00:46:32:12 00:46:33:15
Rotterdam right now.

00:46:33:21 00:46:35:08
And we've committed that we're going

00:46:35:09 00:46:36:23
to completely open source all the

00:46:37:02 00:46:39:07
learnings about that,

00:46:39:08 00:46:40:08
good and bad, to even

00:46:41:03 00:46:42:18
our closest competitors, because

00:46:42:24 00:46:44:23
sustainability has to be a team

00:46:44:24 00:46:46:08
sport. It can't be a source of

00:46:46:09 00:46:47:10
competitive advantage.

00:46:48:06 00:46:49:01
Back to my point earlier.

00:46:49:02 00:46:50:12
Innocent being good on its own

00:46:50:18 00:46:51:16
doesn't achieve anything.

00:46:51:17 00:46:52:24
We all we all have to move;

00:46:53:16 00:46:55:01
the buffalo herd has to move.

00:46:55:02 00:46:56:13
So I think what you'll see and

00:46:57:03 00:46:58:11
we're already seeing beyond

00:46:59:01 00:47:00:09
just B Corps, more and more

00:47:00:17 00:47:02:08
companies coming together to solve

00:47:02:10 00:47:04:11
some of these big problems and work

00:47:04:12 00:47:06:10
together on things that 20 years ago

00:47:06:15 00:47:08:02
it would have been so like, no,

00:47:08:03 00:47:08:24
they're my competitor.

00:47:08:25 00:47:10:01
I mustn't talk to them.

00:47:10:20 00:47:12:04
That's changing really fast.

00:47:12:06 00:47:13:10
So collaboration.

00:47:13:11 00:47:15:02
Yes to NGOs and others, but

00:47:15:07 00:47:16:23
but also between companies that were

00:47:16:24 00:47:18:03
historic competitors,

00:47:18:22 00:47:20:08
I think you'll see more and more of

00:47:20:09 00:47:21:06
it.

00:47:21:07 00:47:22:02
No, absolutely.

00:47:22:03 00:47:23:02
Thanks so much, Douglas.

00:47:23:03 00:47:24:13
And I think I want to open it up to

00:47:24:14 00:47:25:24
think about this really is an

00:47:26:02 00:47:27:03
ambitious campaign.

00:47:27:04 00:47:28:23
And I want us to think about a

00:47:28:24 00:47:30:10
question that's come in from Steve

00:47:30:11 00:47:31:22
Podmore, which is asking, what

00:47:32:07 00:47:34:08
would it take to get this

00:47:34:09 00:47:35:05
over the line?

00:47:35:06 00:47:36:19
So on the point of collaboration

00:47:37:03 00:47:38:14
and support, what does the

00:47:38:25 00:47:41:14
BBA need? I'll ask you specifically,

00:47:41:15 00:47:42:25
Douglas, when you feel like the kind

00:47:43:00 00:47:45:02
of resources, whether it's it

00:47:45:03 00:47:46:16
could be philanthropic, it could be

00:47:46:24 00:47:48:10
partnerships with other companies;

00:47:48:15 00:47:49:17
you mentioned the Institute of

00:47:49:18 00:47:51:04
Directors has been very supportive.

00:47:51:12 00:47:52:09
What else is needed?

00:47:52:10 00:47:53:14
That's a question that's coming in

00:47:53:15 00:47:55:03
from Steve. Thanks so much for that.

00:47:55:11 00:47:56:21
That, and I'll build on another

00:47:56:22 00:47:58:01
question of what's the sort of

00:47:58:02 00:47:59:23
counter argument and why no,

00:47:59:24 00:48:00:22
if you like.

00:48:00:23 00:48:02:18
And we've started conversations with

00:48:02:19 00:48:04:15
MPs and with government and we've

00:48:04:16 00:48:05:23
got good cross-party support.

00:48:05:24 00:48:07:19
We had a launch in parliament three

00:48:07:20 00:48:09:02
or four weeks ago, where we had

00:48:09:04 00:48:11:03
speakers from every single party

00:48:11:10 00:48:13:02
in support, which is quite a rare

00:48:13:05 00:48:14:18
thing, and specifically with the

00:48:14:19 00:48:16:11
government, again, the conversations

00:48:16:12 00:48:17:24
we've had with them, they are

00:48:18:00 00:48:19:15
supportive of our outcomes.

00:48:19:16 00:48:21:03
The challenge for any government,

00:48:21:14 00:48:22:16
anyone that knows that well, that

00:48:22:17 00:48:24:14
I'm learning fast is that

00:48:24:15 00:48:26:15
actually legislative change is

00:48:26:16 00:48:28:18
liquid gold because there's so

00:48:29:05 00:48:30:23
little time in parliament to debate

00:48:31:02 00:48:32:15
these things and what other

00:48:32:16 00:48:34:24
priorities across their full agenda.

00:48:35:07 00:48:37:00
So what we need

00:48:37:07 00:48:38:25
is not really about money, is about

00:48:39:03 00:48:40:15
is about commitment and voice.

00:48:40:16 00:48:42:12
Every individual and every company

00:48:42:13 00:48:43:21
and every institute directors.

00:48:44:02 00:48:45:02
You've got a drum.

00:48:45:12 00:48:47:07
You've got you've got a drum stick.

00:48:47:13 00:48:48:13
Just beat the drum.

00:48:48:14 00:48:49:16
And if we're all beating the drum

00:48:49:17 00:48:51:07
loudly saying we want this change to

00:48:51:08 00:48:53:11
happen and government

00:48:53:12 00:48:55:05
are hearing it more and more and

00:48:55:11 00:48:56:25
we know consumers are with us in

00:48:57:06 00:48:59:04
all the polling we've done, 70, 80

00:48:59:06 00:49:00:10
percent of consumers are saying,

00:49:00:15 00:49:01:22
what do you mean this isn't already

00:49:01:23 00:49:03:03
happening? Why not?

00:49:03:11 00:49:04:18
So we've got we've got business

00:49:04:19 00:49:06:01
support. We've got consumer

00:49:06:17 00:49:08:04
support. We've got good cross-party

00:49:08:05 00:49:09:15
support. But we need that business

00:49:09:16 00:49:11:12
support to be louder and louder, so

00:49:11:13 00:49:13:08
they realise that it isn't just 600

00:49:13:09 00:49:15:12
companies. It's six thousand, sixty

00:49:15:13 00:49:17:16
thousand leaders in the UK saying

00:49:17:23 00:49:19:17
we want this change because we think

00:49:19:18 00:49:21:02
it will drive all the things

00:49:21:19 00:49:22:19
that we've talked about here.

00:49:22:20 00:49:24:16
So it's about not

00:49:24:17 00:49:25:23
just signing up because, you know,

00:49:25:25 00:49:27:16
hopefully lots of people will sign

00:49:27:22 00:49:29:04
up to this following this and other

00:49:29:05 00:49:30:04
events.

00:49:30:05 00:49:31:22
But it's then saying, how do I want

00:49:32:01 00:49:32:22
to show up as an individual?

00:49:32:23 00:49:34:01
Am I going to go out and campaign

00:49:34:02 00:49:35:09
for this? Am I going to go out and

00:49:35:18 00:49:36:22
convince my five friends

00:49:37:15 00:49:39:02
that also run companies to support

00:49:39:03 00:49:40:14
this? So bang that drum loudly

00:49:41:01 00:49:42:19
and encourage others to do it is is

00:49:42:21 00:49:43:20
really key to this.

00:49:43:21 00:49:45:12
It's it's less about money because

00:49:45:19 00:49:47:08
this is more about, I think, the

00:49:47:11 00:49:48:11
government

00:49:49:13 00:49:50:23
in a legislative unrestricted

00:49:51:19 00:49:52:21
environment. I think this is the

00:49:52:22 00:49:54:08
kind of thing that would go through.

00:49:54:22 00:49:56:06
So this is just about making sure

00:49:56:07 00:49:57:17
that our voice is loud and heard and

00:49:57:18 00:49:59:04
they realise we should be one of

00:49:59:05 00:50:00:11
their top priorities, not one of

00:50:00:12 00:50:02:11
their medium priorities.

00:50:02:23 00:50:03:23
Thanks so much, Douglas.

00:50:04:02 00:50:05:23
And in terms of your own experience,

00:50:06:06 00:50:08:04
getting the support really

00:50:08:05 00:50:09:18
from your own board and from your

00:50:09:19 00:50:11:11
own leadership team for this,

00:50:11:16 00:50:12:23
is there anything you can share that

00:50:12:24 00:50:13:24
might be useful by

00:50:14:23 00:50:16:12
way of lesson for others who are

00:50:16:20 00:50:17:24
thinking about this topic at the

00:50:17:25 00:50:18:20
moment?

00:50:18:21 00:50:20:17
Yeah, I mean, I guess

00:50:20:20 00:50:22:11
it wasn't hard for my board and,

00:50:22:23 00:50:24:15
you know, for my fellow directors,

00:50:24:23 00:50:26:11
you know, this is kind of how how we

00:50:26:12 00:50:28:08
think. Obviously, my company

00:50:28:09 00:50:30:03
is owned by Coca-Cola, one of,

00:50:30:12 00:50:31:19
you know, one of the world's biggest

00:50:31:20 00:50:33:04
companies. And again, when I

00:50:33:07 00:50:35:02
suggested becoming a B

00:50:35:06 00:50:36:01
Corp or supporting this act, they

00:50:36:02 00:50:37:18
were like, well, that's that's who

00:50:37:19 00:50:40:02
you are, that's what you you

00:50:40:03 00:50:41:12
represent as Innocent.

00:50:41:22 00:50:43:08
Absolutely. We're fully supportive.

00:50:43:09 00:50:45:02
And also they want to see and learn

00:50:45:09 00:50:47:00
from it as well. So it was a

00:50:47:01 00:50:48:14
relatively smooth path, as I said

00:50:48:15 00:50:49:24
earlier, if if you've got a

00:50:50:06 00:50:51:06
committed leadership team that
believe

00:50:51:07 00:50:52:20
in something is a brave investor

00:50:52:21 00:50:54:12
that turns around and says, no, we

00:50:54:18 00:50:55:22
want to do completely opposite

00:50:55:23 00:50:57:16
because they're risking that high

00:50:57:17 00:50:59:06
quality leadership team going, well,

00:50:59:07 00:51:00:14
OK, we want to do something

00:51:00:15 00:51:02:10
different to in another company.

00:51:02:11 00:51:04:06
So I think it's about your

00:51:04:07 00:51:05:17
own self commitment to it and

00:51:06:03 00:51:07:17
then being brave with that, which is

00:51:07:18 00:51:09:17
ultimately what makes change happen.

00:51:10:13 00:51:11:13
It is not passive

00:51:12:09 00:51:13:20
nodding, saying that sounds nice,

00:51:14:01 00:51:15:01
it's active.

00:51:15:02 00:51:16:10
I'm going to do something about this

00:51:16:11 00:51:17:18
and I'm going to join the movement,

00:51:17:19 00:51:18:15
if you like.

00:51:18:16 00:51:20:07
Yeah. Just to add to what Douglass

00:51:20:10 00:51:21:09
was saying as well.

00:51:21:10 00:51:22:20
I mean, obviously in a public

00:51:23:01 00:51:24:14
marketplace where you're likely to

00:51:24:15 00:51:26:03
have a quite potentially quite a

00:51:26:04 00:51:27:18
diverse number of shareholders,

00:51:28:02 00:51:29:11
there is nearly always going to be

00:51:29:12 00:51:30:20
one who will understand what

00:51:31:08 00:51:32:12
it is you are trying to do.

00:51:32:18 00:51:34:08
In a private marketplace it might be

00:51:34:09 00:51:35:12
a little bit different, but in a

00:51:35:13 00:51:36:17
public marketplace, you know, with

00:51:36:18 00:51:37:16
somebody, for example, like

00:51:37:17 00:51:39:04
Innocent, any other of the sort

00:51:39:15 00:51:41:07
of the listed companies out there,

00:51:41:12 00:51:43:05
there are more impact

00:51:43:08 00:51:44:21
driven and sustainably oriented

00:51:44:25 00:51:46:10
investors out there than you might

00:51:46:11 00:51:47:18
first imagine, given what's

00:51:47:23 00:51:49:01
especially what's happened over the

00:51:49:02 00:51:50:03
last 18 months

00:51:50:22 00:51:52:04
globally, but also within the

00:51:52:05 00:51:53:05
markets as well.

00:51:53:10 00:51:55:02
So I would add to what

00:51:55:11 00:51:57:08
Douglas was saying is get to

00:51:57:09 00:51:59:06
understand your shareholders

00:51:59:07 00:52:00:14
as well, really well, their

00:52:00:22 00:52:02:22
motivations, why they've invested

00:52:02:23 00:52:04:01
in you, what it is that they really

00:52:04:02 00:52:05:16
like about you, what excites them

00:52:05:19 00:52:06:20
about you as well.

00:52:07:01 00:52:08:17
And you'll be quite surprised often

00:52:08:18 00:52:09:20
when you start to sort of really

00:52:09:21 00:52:10:24
understand them and understand their

00:52:11:00 00:52:11:24
motivations for being

00:52:13:10 00:52:14:24
part of your journey, that you've

00:52:14:25 00:52:16:02
probably already got some

00:52:16:03 00:52:18:08
sustainably minded and purposeful

00:52:18:09 00:52:19:24
investors already in with you.

00:52:20:10 00:52:22:07
Get to know them, use them, get

00:52:22:08 00:52:23:14
them to help you.

00:52:23:17 00:52:25:04
If you are struggling, if you are

00:52:25:05 00:52:26:06
having any sort of points of

00:52:26:07 00:52:28:08
resistance, broaden the team.

00:52:29:10 00:52:30:19
You know, the pitch on the team any

00:52:30:20 00:52:32:01
one time is not just the people who

00:52:32:02 00:52:33:22
work for the company, it's all

00:52:33:23 00:52:35:04
of your stakeholders.

00:52:35:13 00:52:37:09
So identify them, get them on

00:52:37:10 00:52:38:16
the pitch with you, and then start

00:52:38:17 00:52:40:01
to make that noise about why you

00:52:40:02 00:52:41:01
want to support this.

00:52:41:14 00:52:43:02
Thanks so much, Amy. Char, over to

00:52:43:03 00:52:43:13
you.

00:52:43:14 00:52:44:20
Well, I don't know about you guys,

00:52:44:21 00:52:46:07
but I'm certainly feeling like sort

00:52:46:08 00:52:47:18
of the itch in my fingers and sort

00:52:47:19 00:52:49:12
of like a tingle in my toes to just

00:52:49:13 00:52:50:07
want to get acting.

00:52:50:08 00:52:52:15
And so with this sort of drumbeat

00:52:52:22 00:52:54:09
sound in the background,

00:52:54:18 00:52:56:23
I wanted to turn it to Douglas.

00:52:56:24 00:52:58:16
And then Amy, very briefly, just to

00:52:58:21 00:53:00:14
say, what can we all do about this?

00:53:00:20 00:53:02:06
Like what is the call to action

00:53:02:18 00:53:04:02
that you would like to encourage

00:53:04:03 00:53:05:24
everyone that's tuning into this

00:53:06:08 00:53:07:21
Leadership in Extraordinary Times to

00:53:07:22 00:53:09:15
do so? Douglas, what can we do?

00:53:09:18 00:53:10:13
What's our action?

00:53:10:14 00:53:11:13
Again, I've sort of changed what

00:53:12:11 00:53:14:01
I thought I might say in terms of

00:53:14:02 00:53:15:10
that, how do we make mass change

00:53:15:11 00:53:16:07
happen, which is one of the

00:53:16:08 00:53:17:23
questions, I guess, one of the call

00:53:17:24 00:53:19:22
to actions are we haven't cracked

00:53:19:23 00:53:20:22
it right. So

00:53:21:22 00:53:22:22
we're sitting here going, we want to
change.

00:53:23:02 00:53:24:11
We want this to become a mass

00:53:24:12 00:53:25:07
thought process.

00:53:25:08 00:53:26:21
So one of my call to actions, if

00:53:26:22 00:53:28:01
you've got good ideas around that,

00:53:28:02 00:53:29:07
if you've got experience around

00:53:29:08 00:53:31:03
that, please come towards us.

00:53:31:04 00:53:32:23
You know, we're we're here believing

00:53:33:00 00:53:34:03
in this stuff, doing our best.

00:53:34:04 00:53:36:08
But we're not perfect humans

00:53:36:09 00:53:37:15
either with all the answers.

00:53:37:16 00:53:39:14
So so I'm listening.

00:53:39:15 00:53:41:05
So people who've got good ideas off

00:53:41:06 00:53:43:03
the back of this about how to make

00:53:43:04 00:53:44:24
this campaign accelerate, how to

00:53:45:04 00:53:46:12
in general drive wider mass

00:53:46:25 00:53:48:18
change. Please, please get in

00:53:48:19 00:53:50:07
contact with me and the campaign

00:53:50:19 00:53:52:11
team, and we'd love your help, as it

00:53:52:12 00:53:53:11
were.

00:53:53:18 00:53:55:18
Of course, sign up, but

00:53:56:09 00:53:57:19
basically choose how you want to

00:53:57:20 00:53:59:08
turn up as a human in the next five

00:53:59:09 00:54:00:07
years. I think it's a really

00:54:00:08 00:54:02:14
important time in human history

00:54:02:21 00:54:04:11
and there's this sort of

00:54:04:21 00:54:06:15
unclear threat in front of us that's

00:54:06:17 00:54:08:08
getting louder and louder and more

00:54:08:17 00:54:10:17
of us to act and really step into

00:54:11:03 00:54:12:17
this by supporting the BBA,

00:54:12:25 00:54:14:14
whether it's leading your company in

00:54:14:15 00:54:15:16
a different way or whether it's

00:54:15:22 00:54:17:24
doing other things as a as a citizen

00:54:18:03 00:54:19:18
as a consumer and tied to

00:54:20:00 00:54:21:20
companies, you support through your

00:54:22:01 00:54:23:05
purchasing habits really

00:54:24:11 00:54:25:17
consciously think about how you want

00:54:25:18 00:54:26:21
to show up in the next five years,

00:54:26:22 00:54:27:16
because I think it's a really

00:54:27:17 00:54:28:17
important time.

00:54:28:19 00:54:30:08
Beautiful. Amy, what's your call

00:54:30:16 00:54:32:01
to action for all of us today?

00:54:33:00 00:54:34:07
Revolution is going to be crowd

00:54:34:08 00:54:36:00
funded and the crowd is us.

00:54:36:04 00:54:37:04
OK, so building on

00:54:37:25 00:54:39:01
what Douglass said, obviously sign

00:54:39:02 00:54:40:12
up. Write to your MP,

00:54:41:01 00:54:42:25
ask them to support this,

00:54:43:21 00:54:45:08
speak to your friends and family,

00:54:45:09 00:54:47:00
spread the gospel, spread the gospel

00:54:47:01 00:54:48:13
as wide and as far as you can.

00:54:48:20 00:54:50:24
This change is absolutely

00:54:51:00 00:54:52:08
required. The time is here and the

00:54:52:09 00:54:53:25
time is now. And we need everybody

00:54:54:05 00:54:55:22
to kind of get - not just business

00:54:56:06 00:54:57:11
leaders. We need everybody.

00:54:57:12 00:54:58:12
We need the crowd to come and

00:54:58:13 00:54:59:10
support us with this.

00:54:59:11 00:55:01:06
So if you can, spread the

00:55:01:07 00:55:02:06
message.

00:55:02:10 00:55:03:14
Love it. I actually just got a

00:55:03:15 00:55:04:15
little bit of goosebumps there.

00:55:04:16 00:55:05:15
So thank you both.

00:55:05:17 00:55:07:09
I am simply going to add to the call

00:55:07:10 00:55:08:23
to action here is that there is more

00:55:08:24 00:55:10:12
information on the BBA website for

00:55:10:13 00:55:11:21
anybody who wants to learn more.

00:55:12:01 00:55:13:06
And I would just invite anyone who's

00:55:13:07 00:55:15:00
also interested in empowering

00:55:15:05 00:55:16:13
your director directors,

00:55:17:01 00:55:18:14
by exploring, maybe hosting your own

00:55:18:15 00:55:19:22
Boardroom 2030 meetings.

00:55:19:23 00:55:21:08
So please feel free to reach out if

00:55:21:09 00:55:22:11
that's of interest to you.

00:55:22:16 00:55:23:23
I think, Mary, we are coming to the

00:55:23:24 00:55:25:24
very end of our wonderful hour

00:55:25:25 00:55:27:16
together. So I turn it over to you

00:55:27:21 00:55:29:01
to close us out.

00:55:29:06 00:55:30:06
Just a few comments.

00:55:30:08 00:55:31:10
Just first of all, thanks to

00:55:31:11 00:55:32:12
everyone who tuned in.

00:55:32:13 00:55:33:12
Thank you to the team.

00:55:33:13 00:55:35:02
Thank you to the panellists and to

00:55:35:03 00:55:36:23
you, Char. I think just to say

00:55:36:24 00:55:38:20
this is a radical session, it's

00:55:38:21 00:55:39:15
out of the box.

00:55:39:16 00:55:41:06
It is one of the things that looks

00:55:41:07 00:55:43:11
like extraordinary, extraordinary

00:55:43:12 00:55:44:24
times, Leadership in Extraordinary

00:55:45:00 00:55:46:12
Times. And this idea of looking

00:55:46:20 00:55:48:16
at this kind of change is a

00:55:48:17 00:55:50:07
radical thing. And it touches on a

00:55:50:09 00:55:52:09
lot of research that goes on in all

00:55:52:12 00:55:53:12
corners of the School.

00:55:53:13 00:55:54:15
So everything from the Knowledge

00:55:54:16 00:55:55:19
Equity Programme at the

00:55:56:15 00:55:58:00
Skoll Centre, which, Amy, you

00:55:58:01 00:55:59:13
touched on the idea of a lived

00:55:59:19 00:56:01:03
experience and the importance of

00:56:01:04 00:56:02:21
that all the way to the work that's

00:56:03:00 00:56:04:21
going on, on reporting

00:56:04:22 00:56:06:10
and standards of reporting that are

00:56:06:11 00:56:08:12
going on with, for example, scholars

00:56:08:13 00:56:09:18
including Richard Barker and Bob

00:56:09:19 00:56:10:15
Eccles here.

00:56:10:16 00:56:12:01
This touches on so much that the

00:56:12:02 00:56:12:25
School is interested in.

00:56:12:26 00:56:14:09
There is no one uniform view

00:56:14:22 00:56:15:16
on these topics.

00:56:15:17 00:56:17:04
We want to stimulate debate and

00:56:17:14 00:56:18:19
we just want to thank you for being

00:56:18:20 00:56:19:19
part of it.

00:56:19:20 00:56:21:04
Our theory of change, you can hear a

00:56:21:05 00:56:22:18
little bit more about in a piece

00:56:22:19 00:56:24:19
that Char and I wrote just recently,

00:56:24:21 00:56:26:15
it's available on hbr.org,

00:56:26:16 00:56:27:16
HarvardBusinessReview.org.

00:56:28:07 00:56:29:23
And it looks about how do you move

00:56:30:00 00:56:32:04
beyond the idea that individual CEOs

00:56:32:05 00:56:34:02
here as heroes, with all respect

00:56:34:03 00:56:35:24
to to Douglas, will make

00:56:36:00 00:56:37:18
the systems change that we're

00:56:37:19 00:56:38:25
talking about in this session.

00:56:39:00 00:56:40:12
So thanks so much for joining us.

00:56:40:18 00:56:42:09
You can always pick up on previous

00:56:42:16 00:56:44:17
sessions and this one online and

00:56:44:18 00:56:45:21
really, really appreciate all your

00:56:45:22 00:56:47:04
great questions. Thanks so much,

00:56:47:05 00:56:48:04
everybody.

00:56:53:08 00:56:54:09
My thanks to Dr. Mary

00:56:54:19 00:56:56:20
Johnstone-Louis, Charmain Love,

00:56:57:04 00:56:59:04
Amy Clarke and Douglas Lamont.

00:56:59:23 00:57:01:11
My name is Peter Tufano,

00:57:01:19 00:57:02:25
and you've been listening to

00:57:02:26 00:57:04:17
Leadership in Extraordinary Times,

00:57:05:03 00:57:06:20
a podcast from Oxford University's

00:57:07:14 00:57:08:16
Said Business School.

00:57:09:13 00:57:11:03
If you'd like more information about

00:57:11:04 00:57:13:03
this episode and the Leadership in

00:57:13:04 00:57:14:20
Extraordinary Times series, please

00:57:15:07 00:57:16:07
visit OxfordAnswers.org,

00:57:18:05 00:57:20:05
and subscribe to future episodes

00:57:20:11 00:57:22:01
wherever you get your podcasts

00:57:23:00 00:57:24:01
until the next time.

00:57:24:12 00:57:25:07
Thanks for listening.

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