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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to this
series, Leadership in Extraordinary Times -

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and we certainly are living in extraordinary times. 
Thank you all for attending; my name's Chas Bountra and I'm 

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the Pro-Vice Chancellor for Innovation and
the Professor of Translational Medicine here

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at the University of Oxford. We've got a great
session lined up. We want this to be as interactive

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as possible so please ask lots of questions,
use the chat box - Linkedin, Facebook, Youtube etc.

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Please keep the questions brief, tell
us who you are and where you're from,

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and this podcast will be available afterwards
- it will be available as a podcast so please

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enjoy it, search Leadership in Extraordinary Times -
I'm now going to hand you over to my young genius

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host - co-host Srin, over to you.
Thank you Chas. Hi everyone and thank you so

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much for joining us today. My name is Srin and
I'm a technology entrepreneur and now turned

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technology investor. I am a former student at the
Saïd Business School and I'm a mentor and advisor

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at the Oxford Foundry and Oxford chapter of the
Creative Destruction Lab. So I was really excited

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and honoured to be able to be one of the co-hosts
today and join Chas, our amazing panellists, and all

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of you today and thank you so much for joining.
Before I introduce our panellists, I wanted

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to share a little bit of personal experience as
to why I think today's topic of discussion

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is so important and is so topical at this
current moment. So prior to my current role 

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I previously started a company called Accomable,
that was a travel platform for people with

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disabilities or who had mobility challenges, that
was acquired by Airbnb in 2017. Now, I started this

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company very much born of a personal need; I
was born with a disability called spinal muscular

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atrophy and it meant that for my entire life I've
had very limited use of my arms and legs, and I

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started Accomable to serve a problem that I
had faced and people in my community had faced.

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Now, due to my disability I've been the beneficiary
of many kinds of innovation, whether that be

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powered wheelchairs, antibiotics or experimental
gene therapies to everything from home automation

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from Amazon and Google, to apps to make
it easier to travel or find restaurants, but all

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these forms of innovation ultimately rolled up
into improving quality of life or for people

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improving quality of life for people with similar
needs to me, so I'm really excited that we can

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have conversations like today about healthcare
innovation centered around helping communities

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more holistically, and given what's happened in the
pandemic - the past 12 months - I think there is no

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better time for a discussion around transformative
and inclusive innovation that helps people, and

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how entrepreneurship can be a driver of that. So
without further ado I'm going to start introducing

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our panelists. Firstly we have Maayan Ziv, who was
the winner of the Novartis innovation prize. Maayan

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is the founder and CEO of AccessNow and is an
activist and entrepreneur based in Toronto, Canada.

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Next we have Donna Walsh of the European
Federation of Neurological Associations. Donna's

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training is in journalism but she's been working
with patient organisations in the neurological

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sector since university. We're also very fortunate
today to have Peteris Zilgalvis who's the head of

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unit for digital innovation and Blockchain at the
European Commission. Peteris also has a link to the

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university in the sense that he was a visiting
fellow at Saint Anthony's College from 2013 to

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2014. And finally, last but not least, we have
Dr Vreni Schoenenberger who is the Global Head of

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Public Affairs Neuroscience at Novartis. Vreni
is a public health expert and pharmaceutical

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executive, and amongst other roles is currently
a mentor at the University of Oxford's Creative

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Destruction Lab, also advising early stage
ventures on healthcare system dynamics and the

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wider pharmaceutical environment. And so, without
further ado, I will hand back over to you Chas.

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Srin that was awesome, thank you so much. I
mean we all recognise that even in normal times

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we need great leaders. Now certainly when
you're in a crisis or when you're coming

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out of a crisis or post a crisis, we absolutely
need even more great leadership, we need great

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innovators, and we need great entrepreneurs
because these individuals are outward looking,

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they will form big collaborations, big partnerships,
they will work with colleagues in industry,

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colleagues in government, with regulators, with
funders, with other universities, with patient

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groups, and other stakeholders in the healthcare
community; and importantly they will also work

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with other countries, because the problems we're
facing, they are global. And together these

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networks will hopefully accelerate
outputs, they will minimise duplication and wastage,

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because of course in times of crisis resources are
always limited. These global networks can produce

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new platforms, new technologies, new therapeutics,
new vaccines and drive policy change as well. Now

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in Oxford we've witnessed in the past year quite
an amazing story which maybe encapsulates a lot of

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what we're trying to say and discuss:
the vaccine story here - the Oxford AstroZeneca 

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vaccine. Back in March last year a couple of our
academic entrepreneurs - Adrian Hill and Sarah Gilbert -

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they got together with the senior leadership
in the university - Vice Chancellor Louise

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Richardson, Regius Professor John Bell, the head
of the medical school Gavin Screaton - they worked

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with colleagues in government, colleagues in
regulatory agencies, with other funders,

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and importantly they worked
with colleagues in AstraZeneca

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and together they thought how can we
generate a vaccine for this pandemic as quickly

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as possible. And it is quite remarkable what
this collective did in 10 months. Generating a

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vaccine from scratch would normally have taken
eight/nine/ten years: it is quite phenomenal.

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And for me, the big lesson is that when we work
together and we're pulling in the same direction,

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we've got that single focus and everybody's
pulling in that, striving towards

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that goal, together we can do the impossible. My
final comment is that in universities

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we produce lots of talent, we produce future
leaders, Srin is one of them, we produce

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future innovators, future entrepreneurs. And
the universities can serve to be glues for

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these global networks, and I believe by working
with industry and with other stakeholders in the

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healthcare community we can be engines
for innovation. So let me hand over and

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ask questions now to Vreni. I mean, we're
so grateful that you're on this panel, you

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have a public health background, you've thought
a lot about how you prepare healthcare systems

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pandemics so before you put your Novartis
hat on, Vreni, maybe you could tell us

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what comes after a pandemic, what do you
think needs to change? Thanks Chas,

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I think when I was at least working
at WHO a lot of the focus was on how do we better

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surveil for emerging pandemics, how do we help
healthcare systems identify and contain them super

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quickly. Unfortunately there's not as good of
a playbook for how you rebuild healthcare systems

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after they've essentially been on pause for about
a year. Now I don't have a crystal ball but a

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lot of the early evidence that's coming in is
showing that there's a huge backlog of chronic

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disease patients that haven't had access to
appropriate diagnosis, to care, to treatment in

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the past year, and unfortunately among those are
many people living with neurological conditions.

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And if we really focus on actually on neurological
conditions as a case example then unfortunately

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there were already issues with access to
those three things - to diagnosis, care and treatment -

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prior to COVID. Not to pick on the UK, I just
happened to have the statistics available prior

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to COVID: in 2019 a survey of 10,000 patients
with neurological conditions found that 28 per cent

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of them had been waiting more than a year to see
a specialist, so more than a year, as you might

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imagine COVID didn't really help that situation
and even though there's been a somewhat miraculous

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move to telehealth and this has packed a lot of
appointments to the books, a recent analysis of

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NHS data shows that there's a third less neurology
patients in the system in January of this year

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than there were last year, and so this is somewhat
concerning because this means that people are not

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getting the care that they need and additionally
for neurological conditions these tend to

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be complex conditions that require complex
care so it's not just access to specialists,

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it's access to MRIs, to blood work, to
rehabilitation appointments, and we're hearing from

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patients across Europe, and France, and Spain, Italy
Czech Republic, Hungary, that their access to

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this type of care has also been reduced. I mean, we
have one survey that shows that 75 per cent of all 

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rehab appointments for multiple sclerosis patients in
Italy have been cancelled or delayed as a result

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of the epidemic, and just so I'm really clear, this
is not to point any fingers or cast any blame on

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health care systems, I think the response to
COVID has been herculean, right, but the fact remains

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that access to diagnosis care and treatment
before COVID was a challenge for these patients.

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COVID made it more challenging and we're likely
going to see a backlog of these patients really,

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really urgently needing access to care. So I'm
going to pause there and I know that sounds a

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somewhat gloomy picture but I'm actually pretty
optimistic that if we work together we can address

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these challenges, and I'm optimistic because of
what you've actually just described Chas: when

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you come together and work across sectors and we
put a bunch of really great brains together and

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you work together you can basically address really
unprecedented challenges and do it quite quickly

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so this is a call to action a bit, both for everyone
on this panel and for everyone on this call, for

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all the stakeholders that are involved in this
response to come back together for us to rebuild

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healthcare systems better than they looked like
before, and - as we'll talk about later in this call -

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build it directly with the communities, with
patients, and leveraging a lot of the new

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technologies that are coming online. At
Novartis we are committed to that

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call to action and we're really looking forward to
partnering with whomever is willing to work with

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us on these challenges to help healthcare systems
and people living with neurological conditions.

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That was such a thoughtful answer, thank
you so much, you really are a great

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leader and an innovator and an entrepreneur
so thank you for that. Peteris, maybe

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I could turn to yourself? I mean, what do you
think is the role of policy and institutions

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in fostering entrepreneurship in health, and
how is the European Commission contributing to

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and supporting innovation in healthcare which
is fit for a post-COVID future? 

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Well thank you for giving me the floor, it's great
to be back in Oxford, but it's not as good to be

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here virtually than cycling around town or being
at a high table, but happy to get the chance

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to speak a little bit about our startup policy. In
fact this last Friday, 24 EU member states and

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Iceland together signed a startup nation standard
of excellence and they committed to, first of all,

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fast startup creation; smooth market entry; an
entrepreneur being able to set up a startup, a

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legal entity in one day for no less than 100 Euro;
attracting and retaining talent - visa applications

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should be processed within a month; stock options
- enabling employee stock options - for startups which

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is one of the great engines for growth; innovation
for regulation including in regulatory sandboxes

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which is something that we do in the European
Blockchain partnership, we have a regulatory

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sandbox launching for blockchain applications
including in health, and in fact we have a use

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case launching across the entire EU on social
security cards which obviously play a part

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in health care and in people's social welfare
as well; innovation procurement including tech

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transfer policies committing to that; and access to
finance, which is one of the areas whether they are

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our health, ehealth tech entrepreneurs, or others
getting them access especially to scaling up

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finance. Also we want to see in our startups social
inclusion, diversity and want to protect democratic

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values. And we want digital first, so following - for
instance - on the example of Estonia's great once

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only principle, which is something we're trying to
implement very much in our e-government

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approaches, for instance in the recovery
and resilience facility, we want to be able

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to have both citizens as well as consumers and
enterprises utilise a possibility to submit

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digital information only once and
not have to repeat it, allowing the authorities

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- with their consent - to use it multiple times. And
then, actually, I have a very concrete example that

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commissioner Thierry Breton - who I work for -
signalled in his speech at the Startup Nations

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Standard signature ceremony last week,
this is, for instance, BioNTech, which is a

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German startup which repeatedly received 
EU funding over the years and it has this

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great messenger RNA discovery which we're very
proud of and also we're very proud that millions

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of these vaccines have been exported all around
the world to help others also outside of Europe.

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Thank you for your attention and I'll be back.
Well Peteris, thank you very much, I mean we've

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all heard about BioNTech and we applaud it and
we're grateful for it and the impact that that

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vaccine is having across the world. So I'm going
to hand over to Srin now to field some questions.

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Srin, over to you. Super thank you Chas, and
thank you Peteris for sharing those comments

0:18:36.880,0:18:42.720
of all the great work that is that is happening
at the moment to stimulate entrepreneurship. I

0:18:42.720,0:18:48.960
also just want to take this moment to remind those
watching please do post questions,

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and  we are able to ask questions
of our panellists throughout this entire

0:18:54.880,0:19:00.880
streamcast so please do come in
with questions and also say where you're from in

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them. So moving the conversation along slightly,
we've talked about innovation and stimulating

0:19:06.720,0:19:12.640
entrepreneurship from this perspective of the
public sector but now I'll be really keen to see

0:19:12.640,0:19:18.240
some of the initiatives happening within
the private sector to to stimulate innovation and

0:19:18.240,0:19:25.040
to again to hopefully engage communities and to
to build innovation that is inclusive of

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the communities that are being served, and so for
this I'd like to bring Vreni back in. Vreni,

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as you know, I was a judge for the
Novartis innovation prize that took place last

0:19:37.120,0:19:43.040
year and this was one of those efforts to
get startups to think about problems faced by

0:19:43.040,0:19:48.320
communities so maybe you could take take a look,
love for you to take the opportunity to share more

0:19:48.320,0:19:53.200
about the Novartis innovation prize for multiple
sclerosis and what it was trying to achieve.

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Sure, so I think first we can cover
why it's so important to have what we call 

0:20:01.280,0:20:07.520
outside-in innovation for neurological
conditions, why we focus on multiple sclerosis

0:20:07.520,0:20:10.880
and then a little bit more about the prize,
if you'll allow me that somewhat

0:20:10.880,0:20:17.680
long answer, Srin. To begin with
Novartis has had a bit of a journey in

0:20:17.680,0:20:24.880
terms of understanding what we mean by outside-in
innovation, and I'll leave it to Maayan and to Donna

0:20:24.880,0:20:29.280
to discuss the finer points of what that looks
like in practice, but hopefully there's a few

0:20:29.280,0:20:34.400
things that we've learned along the way that might
be useful for others working in health care.

0:20:34.400,0:20:41.440
As many know, positive health care outcomes are
not just totally the function of what happens

0:20:41.440,0:20:45.040
in a clinic or the treatment received,
although obviously those are absolutely

0:20:45.040,0:20:51.200
crucial. Modern public health research and
medicine actually show that that in many cases

0:20:51.200,0:20:56.640
there's a complex interplay between outcomes
and other broader quality of life factors and

0:20:56.640,0:21:00.960
this is especially true for neurological
conditions which can unfortunately cause

0:21:00.960,0:21:06.400
extensive disability. In fact neurological
conditions are the number one cause of disability

0:21:06.400,0:21:12.640
adjusted life years for those under the age of 50.
and a lot of the daily challenges faced by people

0:21:12.640,0:21:17.760
living with these conditions, much of them faced
outside of the clinic obviously, can have an

0:21:17.760,0:21:25.600
enormous impact on their overall health. So we
looked at MS specifically because 

0:21:25.600,0:21:30.560
MS is a disorder of the central nervous
system where the flow of information within the

0:21:30.560,0:21:36.880
brain between the brain and the body is disrupted
and while MS manifests in different ways for

0:21:36.880,0:21:41.440
every patient, many people living with MS
will unfortunately experience some limitation

0:21:41.440,0:21:45.840
in limb function and may eventually require
assistance with walking or use of a wheelchair.

0:21:46.480,0:21:51.120
Novartis has a long history of work in multiple
sclerosis; we're one of the original pioneers

0:21:51.120,0:21:55.760
in the development of innovative therapies,
we've been working in this space for 15 years,

0:21:55.760,0:21:59.040
but when we started speaking to people
living with multiple sclerosis or

0:21:59.040,0:22:03.120
the patient advocates that represent this
community we consistently heard that one of

0:22:03.120,0:22:08.480
the biggest issues and challenges that they
face were around mobility and accessibility.

0:22:08.480,0:22:13.280
A lack of mobility often left them feeling
isolated precluded their access to services or

0:22:13.280,0:22:18.400
care and rendered them dependent on caregivers
that they would prefer not to be dependent on,

0:22:18.400,0:22:24.800
in short - challenges - had stuff unresolved,
had a huge impact on their lives and their health.

0:22:24.800,0:22:29.440
So it's pretty clear if we wanted to improve the
overall health of people living with MS we

0:22:29.440,0:22:35.200
needed to support broader solutions beyond the
clinic and our so-called beyond the pill solutions,

0:22:35.200,0:22:41.600
and we needed to do this directly with the
community from day one. So if we're looking at

0:22:41.600,0:22:48.960
what we decided to do about this, we launched
the Novartis innovation prize, there was a 250 000

0:22:48.960,0:22:54.000
grand prize for a solution that addressed mobility
or accessibility concerns for people living with

0:22:54.000,0:22:59.360
MS. Importantly, that solution had to
have been co-created directly with the community

0:22:59.360,0:23:04.800
and it needed to be concrete, and by that I mean
that it needed to to be something that could

0:23:04.800,0:23:09.680
be easily scaled and was accessible from a pricing
perspective and would actually reach the market

0:23:09.680,0:23:17.120
quickly and we had - if I can be
really honest - somewhat low expectations at

0:23:17.120,0:23:21.120
first to say what the success of this was going
to look like and we'd never done it before. I had

0:23:21.120,0:23:25.200
no idea if this was just going to be something my
mom liked on Facebook and cousins to me submitted

0:23:25.840,0:23:31.440
an application for a flying car which is not what
we really wanted, but actually the response was

0:23:31.440,0:23:36.160
was amazing and it blew us away and actually
is - I think - a sign of the opportunities in this

0:23:36.160,0:23:42.400
space. Shortly after we launched this prize we
had heavyweight venture capital firms

0:23:42.400,0:23:48.800
like Sequoia get on board. Srin, you joined
us from Airbnb as a disability tech expert and

0:23:48.800,0:23:54.400
we had Wired Magazine in the mix, we had Uber and
Microsoft also involved, and more importantly we

0:23:54.400,0:24:01.440
had 200 applicants from around 35 countries and
they were incredibly impressive. I'm not going

0:24:01.440,0:24:07.200
to steal Maayan's thunder and I'll let her talk about
how cool AccessNow is, but I think, Srin, as we know

0:24:07.200,0:24:12.720
is a pretty impressive lineup of
applicants and I guess one of

0:24:12.720,0:24:18.000
my final notes on that has been that they were so
impressive there's been an amplification effect on

0:24:18.000,0:24:23.040
a lot of the top 10 finalists for the prize - as
a result of some of the publicity drawn - have

0:24:23.040,0:24:28.880
gone on to get other venture capital funding 
and this means actually that even more solutions

0:24:29.440,0:24:33.840
for people living with multiple sclerosis will
reach the market, so Novartis is quite happy to

0:24:33.840,0:24:39.840
have gotten the ball rolling on them. So I'll sort
of finally hand it over, but I think 

0:24:39.840,0:24:44.240
we're here today to not only talk about
the innovation prize which obviously Novaratis

0:24:44.240,0:24:50.480
is quite proud of, but to support a broader
conversation of why outside in community

0:24:50.480,0:24:55.120
partnered innovation is so important
and it's not just a tick-the-box

0:24:55.120,0:24:59.280
exercise, it's actually a win for everyone.
The innovations that you get out of it are

0:24:59.280,0:25:02.480
so much better and they come so
much faster and so much easier.

0:25:04.720,0:25:08.000
So thanks for that Vreni, and 
as I sort of mentioned in my

0:25:08.000,0:25:13.680
introduction as well, the fact that one can
access interventions that are beyond the pill

0:25:13.680,0:25:19.760
have personally had sort of a positive impact 
from a medical and healthcare perspective,

0:25:19.760,0:25:25.520
but may not have been considered traditional
healthcare innovations, but taking again

0:25:26.080,0:25:30.560
expanding on that point further I'd love
to bring Maayan into the conversation, and

0:25:30.560,0:25:37.120
when we do think about innovation 
it often does spring from personal problem solving

0:25:37.120,0:25:44.560
and Maayan, how did you use your personal
experience to drive your work 

0:25:44.560,0:25:47.920
and how did you use your personal
experience to create AccessNow?

0:25:50.480,0:25:57.040
Hey Srin, thanks for the question and I'm so
glad that I'm here today. Similar to your

0:25:57.040,0:26:04.960
experience of living with SMA, I also kind of
grew up with muscular dystrophy and I have

0:26:04.960,0:26:11.600
constantly navigated a world that wasn't built
for me - from places with steps

0:26:11.600,0:26:20.320
at entrances, to lack of good customer care, 
broken elevators, you name it - and sometimes it's

0:26:20.320,0:26:29.280
just a overall level of unawareness that
accessibility matters to my life, and 

0:26:29.280,0:26:36.880
I'm 30 now and I've consistently navigated
the world, I love to travel, I love to go places

0:26:36.880,0:26:44.400
and even when I was starting out in my career
it became very apparent to me very quickly that

0:26:45.280,0:26:52.400
the built environment was just not designed with
me in mind and I was constantly struggling to

0:26:53.120,0:26:59.920
find information to at least let me know which
places I had access to and which businesses

0:26:59.920,0:27:06.400
were not welcoming to me as a customer for
example and so I had this really

0:27:06.400,0:27:13.840
amazing opportunity. I was studying at school
and university, I was focused on my Master's degree

0:27:13.840,0:27:22.160
in digital media and I decided to focus my
time on accessibility and the disability

0:27:22.160,0:27:30.480
rights movement and really focus on how
we can innovate in this space. There have been

0:27:31.280,0:27:38.320
lots of innovations in technology but there
weren't at the time very many innovations

0:27:38.320,0:27:47.920
regarding accessibility, mobility and navigation
and so it just started with my own experience,

0:27:47.920,0:27:54.560
wanting to solve my own problem and very
quickly I was able to connect with my community

0:27:54.560,0:27:59.760
of people with and without disabilities to
understand the major pain points that people were

0:27:59.760,0:28:06.160
also experiencing - I need places that
are scent free, I need places that I'm going to be

0:28:06.160,0:28:13.360
accommodated with my guide dog, I need spaces
that have low lighting or are quiet - and 

0:28:13.360,0:28:20.080
the expansion of what accessibility means has
really been defined by the community that we've

0:28:20.080,0:28:26.960
worked with at AccessNow, and so I was
so excited about this Novartis innovation prize

0:28:26.960,0:28:34.160
because it really first of all put accessibility
at the forefront of innovation and recognised

0:28:34.160,0:28:40.640
the importance of community-led initiatives, but
specifically being able to engage with the MS

0:28:40.640,0:28:47.920
community we were able to build a platform that
amplified the importance of accessibility for

0:28:47.920,0:28:54.400
and by the community and so AccessNow today is
exactly that, it's a platform that lets people

0:28:54.400,0:29:00.080
search for, rate and discover places based on
the accessibility criteria that they need in

0:29:00.080,0:29:06.800
their own lives rather than having that dictated
to people by experts or anybody else.

0:29:08.960,0:29:13.920
No totally, Maayan, and and I think 
both you and I have in the past may

0:29:13.920,0:29:19.600
have had some hesitancy around sort of engaging
with the healthcare world and being considered

0:29:19.600,0:29:25.440
patients, and so taking that how
do you see the difference between innovation

0:29:25.440,0:29:31.280
around being a patient but instead innovation
around community. What do you think the

0:29:31.280,0:29:36.480
key differences are between those two approaches
and why do you think that distinction is important?

0:29:37.840,0:29:43.280
I think that's a great question Srin and 
even if you look at the differences between the

0:29:43.280,0:29:50.240
medical and social model of disability for example,
within the social model, rather than assuming that

0:29:50.240,0:29:57.920
there is a problem with a patient or a person who
fundamentally needs to be fixed, the social model

0:29:57.920,0:30:03.120
looks at the world around and determines
what is it within the environment that is

0:30:03.120,0:30:09.760
a disabling factor, so for me 
- as a person with a physical disability -

0:30:09.760,0:30:15.120
looking around my world and understanding that
there's nothing wrong with me being born with

0:30:15.120,0:30:20.880
a neuromuscular condition but that there are
many things in the world that are disabling me

0:30:21.440,0:30:28.480
from reaching my fullest potential, and often
specifically for me that can be

0:30:28.480,0:30:35.200
barriers in the built environment or many other
things, and so I think when we expand

0:30:35.200,0:30:44.400
patient or client health to being person
first health then we can also expand to understand what

0:30:44.400,0:30:49.840
community health is about and so the
importance of someone feeling independent,

0:30:50.640,0:30:56.480
reducing anxiety and the ability to navigate
their communities and the world at large, not

0:30:56.480,0:31:02.480
feeling that there are so many barriers out
there in the world, that there is opportunity,

0:31:02.480,0:31:07.760
that there is possibility, that there is
meaningfulness and the ability to connect

0:31:07.760,0:31:13.920
with other people, understanding that
there are many accessible technologies that can

0:31:13.920,0:31:21.120
empower me for example to live my life better and
with more ease. We often make a distinction between

0:31:21.840,0:31:28.640
people with and without disabilities but for
some reason we don't recognise that cars are

0:31:28.640,0:31:34.800
an assistive technology that allow us to get
around faster or that people who wear eyeglasses

0:31:34.800,0:31:40.800
are another way in which you can actually see
the world with more clarity, but then all of

0:31:40.800,0:31:47.200
a sudden when we look at a wheelchair we see that
as a negative, we see that as a wheelchair-bound

0:31:47.200,0:31:54.000
situation where for me, my wheelchair is one of the
most enabling pieces of technology in my day and

0:31:54.000,0:32:00.320
definitely throughout my life. I think when we
begin to understand that we can design solutions

0:32:00.320,0:32:08.560
based on people's lived experiences and consult
and connect to actually have those solutions be

0:32:08.560,0:32:15.280
driven, inspired, and designed with and by the
community, I think that's when we get to really

0:32:15.280,0:32:21.600
exciting opportunities for innovation because
rather than assuming that we know what people need,

0:32:21.600,0:32:27.840
we're constantly asking what do you need? It
seems so simple but often we forget that piece.

0:32:27.840,0:32:31.360
Because specifically
within the disability community

0:32:31.360,0:32:36.640
the phrase 'nothing about us without us' is one
of the most powerful things that you can live by;

0:32:37.200,0:32:44.240
including people with disabilities at every stage
of a design, at every stage of a solution is one of

0:32:44.240,0:32:49.920
the most important ways to make sure that that
solution is actually going to be representative

0:32:49.920,0:32:55.840
and authentic to the needs of people who
actually need the solution to begin with.

0:32:59.760,0:33:04.320
Those comments are all echoed to a lot of
people who are the beneficiaries of

0:33:04.320,0:33:10.240
of healthcare innovation and me included. And
taking that further I'd love to move to Donna.

0:33:10.240,0:33:16.160
We know you've worked as an advocate 
for patients and currently now as an advocate

0:33:16.160,0:33:21.680
for people with neurological conditions,
I know you work really hard to sort of change

0:33:21.680,0:33:26.560
policy on behalf of individuals across
the national, regional and global level,

0:33:26.560,0:33:32.240
we know things haven't always gone right
in terms of inclusion of community voices so

0:33:32.240,0:33:39.200
what do you think needs to change? Yeah, so I want
to keep up, I think, on what Maayan just said and

0:33:39.200,0:33:44.400
and that really is the fact that more often than
not we've been involving people too late in the

0:33:44.400,0:33:51.840
process and I think she's given an amazing case
study in terms of when we innovate based on the

0:33:51.840,0:33:58.000
community needs, when we define those needs from
the outset, we can create these solutions that

0:33:58.000,0:34:04.880
really are embraced by those affected. And I think
in the past we've seen too much that innovation

0:34:04.880,0:34:10.720
has raced ahead, and it's only when the solution
is ready to be launched or to be put on the market

0:34:10.720,0:34:16.400
that those people, the users, are then
consulted and I think at that point it's

0:34:16.400,0:34:22.400
often, we get requests for endorsing
or rubber stamping and that's not good enough.

0:34:22.400,0:34:28.560
So for me, I think what we need to see is really
a culture shift and a major change in attitude

0:34:28.560,0:34:34.640
when it comes to patient and public involvement
in health innovation, because I think what we've

0:34:34.640,0:34:40.160
seen during the pandemic is that we can have
sophisticated processes developed and in place

0:34:40.160,0:34:45.360
but very often when the going gets tough - and
as Chas said earlier - in times of

0:34:45.360,0:34:51.600
crisis, something's got to give, and I think 
what we've seen during the pandemic is that this

0:34:51.600,0:34:57.920
systematic patient involvement has fallen by the
wayside at a time bizarrely when actually that

0:34:57.920,0:35:02.640
patient involvement has been needed more than
ever to look at the way that we can continue

0:35:02.640,0:35:08.720
to deliver health care to our patients, to those
living - in my case - with neurological disorders,

0:35:08.720,0:35:14.400
so I think this is something that we really
need to address. Now we have seen, I think, hope

0:35:14.400,0:35:20.880
in terms of how digital technologies have been
used during the pandemic, are sort of mitigating

0:35:20.880,0:35:26.160
actions to the service disruption and we have
a lot of learnings that we can take forward in

0:35:26.160,0:35:32.320
terms of - as Verni was saying earlier - really using
this acceleration in the digital transformation of

0:35:32.320,0:35:38.320
healthcare to build our healthcare systems back
better, to future-proof them ,to build resiliency

0:35:38.320,0:35:44.880
in our systems. The challenge, I think, we have
to live up to is that we need to involve

0:35:44.880,0:35:50.560
the patients in all of that policy-making and
decision-making because otherwise we're creating

0:35:50.560,0:35:56.480
a future healthcare system that really is not
addressing the needs of its users and that's just

0:35:56.480,0:36:01.200
not acceptable from my point of view. And
we've seen this in the past where we've

0:36:01.200,0:36:08.160
had these periods of health innovation, patients
haven't been involved and the end result has been

0:36:08.160,0:36:14.800
something very very poor. I remember when I started
with my work within EFNA, maybe seven, eight

0:36:14.800,0:36:20.880
years ago, we saw this proliferation of mobile
phone applications. Every stakeholder was sort of

0:36:20.880,0:36:26.800
throwing out a mobile phone application to all of
the communities that came under our umbrella, the

0:36:26.800,0:36:32.880
pharmaceutical industry were really embracing this
trend and I remember at one point an application

0:36:32.880,0:36:37.920
being developed for people living with multiple
sclerosis. It was brought to the market, there

0:36:37.920,0:36:43.280
was lots of fanfare around the launch, and when the
patients started to use the application, they

0:36:43.280,0:36:47.680
very quickly stopped again, and when we asked them
 why you're not using the app, what do you

0:36:47.680,0:36:52.880
not like about it, they said actually, we're
living with a condition that's chronic but is

0:36:52.880,0:36:59.200
relapsing and remitting in nature, so part of the
time I feel fully well and I don't want to have to

0:36:59.200,0:37:05.600
log into this application every day to proactively
say how I'm feeling, what symptoms I'm experiencing.

0:37:05.600,0:37:10.960
I want to forget about the fact that
I'm living with this debilitating condition

0:37:10.960,0:37:16.720
when I'm having these these good phases. What
about wearables? What about sensor technology?

0:37:16.720,0:37:21.360
And I remember at the time thinking did nobody
think to ask this question before they ran down

0:37:21.360,0:37:27.360
this route of actually developing these
types of applications, and we saw around

0:37:27.360,0:37:32.400
that time these applications coming to
market and a couple of days later being completely

0:37:32.400,0:37:37.840
dormant because they really weren't addressing the
needs, or even if they were addressing the needs 

0:37:37.840,0:37:43.360
they were addressing them in the wrong way, and
I think this is my concern when it comes to the

0:37:43.360,0:37:49.520
sort of acceleration of the digital transformation
of healthcare. During and post pandemic we've seen

0:37:49.520,0:37:54.080
a lot of knee-jerk reactions, we've seen a lot
of innovation just because it's possible but

0:37:54.080,0:37:59.440
not because it's really necessary or it's really
addressing unmet needs in the right way, and when

0:37:59.440,0:38:04.800
we asked our community if they saw this
as a positive thing, they were really split into

0:38:04.800,0:38:10.320
three distinct categories. We had 
 a third who were super positive about this,

0:38:10.320,0:38:14.480
there was a third who were really negative about
this, and then there was a third in the middle

0:38:14.480,0:38:19.680
who felt a little bit undecided, not quite
sure that this is moving in the right direction,

0:38:19.680,0:38:24.080
and that's also something I think we need
to bear in mind that it's not just a case of

0:38:24.080,0:38:29.840
one size fits all when it comes to the patient
community but that we need to be flexible, we need to

0:38:29.840,0:38:35.360
be agile, we need to design solutions that
work in the interests of this really broad

0:38:35.360,0:38:41.040
and diverse community. And the other thing I just
wanted to mention is that I think it's not just

0:38:41.040,0:38:46.560
about involving people from the start, as Maayan
said: it's involving people at every step but

0:38:46.560,0:38:52.080
also at the end to get their feedback,
the user satisfaction, is this working for you

0:38:52.080,0:38:57.680
in the real world, but also what are the outcomes
of this and this is something that I think we failed to

0:38:57.680,0:39:04.080
really capture during the pandemic. Has this shift
really changed outcomes? Is this as good as seeing

0:39:04.080,0:39:09.520
the doctor in the surgery? Is it better than seeing
the doctor in the surgery? Because I think the 

0:39:09.520,0:39:14.480
risk we see with innovation is that we 
run down a route just because it can be done

0:39:15.200,0:39:20.320
but not because it really should be done, and
that is something I think only those living

0:39:20.320,0:39:24.960
and affected by the disorders we're talking
about can really contribute to the conversation.

0:39:26.720,0:39:32.080
No thanks so much for that Donna, I think maybe
just sort of to wrap that point

0:39:32.080,0:39:38.320
up, and I guess for the audience today
listening thinking about what does the future

0:39:38.320,0:39:44.640
hold, so let's sort of fast forward maybe
five to ten years from now, 

0:39:44.640,0:39:51.600
what does ideal behaviour and operation look
like for the inclusion of those voices? 

0:39:51.600,0:39:57.360
What would ideal be? So I think ideal, going back
to what I just said, is involving from the start,

0:39:57.360,0:40:02.160
involving at every step, and making sure we
capture the feedback at the end, so I think

0:40:02.160,0:40:07.920
it's that ongoing involvement and not just 
an ad hoc approach every time we think about it.

0:40:08.640,0:40:13.120
The other thing I think we need to think
about is actually equipping the communities

0:40:13.120,0:40:18.560
to get involved and a good example here
is if we look at the pharmaceutical industry and

0:40:18.560,0:40:22.960
research and development that's happened in that
space for many years, now we've really

0:40:22.960,0:40:28.160
been empowering and equipping patient advocates
with the skills they need to get involved.

0:40:29.120,0:40:34.240
For example, at EFNA we've been running our own
training initiatives for neurology advocates,

0:40:34.240,0:40:38.560
some of you might have heard of EUPATI, 
which is the European Patients Academy on

0:40:38.560,0:40:43.920
Therapeutic Innovation and this is all
about empowering patients to understand

0:40:43.920,0:40:48.880
how research and development works and where
and how they can get involved in that continuum,

0:40:48.880,0:40:54.160
so it ranges from looking at how
do you articulate unmet needs, how can you

0:40:54.160,0:40:59.840
design a clinical trial methodology exploring
patient relevant outcome measures, and end points

0:40:59.840,0:41:04.720
thinking about equipping patients to get involved
in regulatory and reimbursement decision making.

0:41:04.720,0:41:09.440
I think we have to do the same sort of thing in
the area of health innovation because what the

0:41:09.440,0:41:15.200
pandemic has also showed us is that there's
this major digital divide and there's major

0:41:15.200,0:41:20.960
issues in terms of digital literacy and we need
to really bring people up to speed in terms of

0:41:20.960,0:41:25.920
what we mean by health innovation, how it happens
and how they can get involved, so I think one of

0:41:25.920,0:41:31.680
the things I'd like to see is an investment in
that sort of capacity-building so patients really

0:41:31.680,0:41:37.520
feel empowered and confident to get involved and
to bring their voice into the discussion. The other

0:41:37.520,0:41:42.880
thing we think we need to ensure is diversity
as well when it comes to patient representation.

0:41:42.880,0:41:48.480
I think for many years we saw the same
people representing the patient in discussions

0:41:48.480,0:41:54.320
with the various stakeholders, I remember again
when I started in this position the board of

0:41:54.320,0:42:00.640
directors of our organisation were all women, they
were all white women, and they were all women over

0:42:00.640,0:42:06.960
the age of 55, and they also all came from a pretty
high income socioeconomic background because

0:42:06.960,0:42:12.880
they had the resources to be able to devote their
time and energy to this type of volunteer work, there

0:42:12.880,0:42:18.560
weren't young people trying to hold down full-time
jobs or people in education or people from lower

0:42:19.200,0:42:25.120
socioeconomic backgrounds, and that I think is
a risk that when we talk about patient

0:42:25.120,0:42:32.640
involvement we just centre our viewpoint on those
patient representatives who we see as experts

0:42:32.640,0:42:37.920
in the system and that's something we have to
get over. Also, I think we've often seen some

0:42:37.920,0:42:42.560
of the stakeholders, the industry in particular,
having focus groups or discussions in

0:42:42.560,0:42:47.040
English-speaking countries because that's the
sort of common language of science very often,

0:42:47.040,0:42:51.840
and I think what we have to do is make sure we're
bringing in those broader cultural perspectives,

0:42:51.840,0:42:57.680
and that's something I'd like to see more of. One
other point I think is important is we also need

0:42:57.680,0:43:02.720
to compensate patients for their time and also
acknowledge their expertise so if we're paying

0:43:02.720,0:43:07.840
doctors, if we're paying academics, if we're
paying health economists, we should be paying

0:43:07.840,0:43:12.240
the patients because they are bringing their
lived experience into the discussion and that

0:43:12.240,0:43:17.680
experience is as valid as any other input that
you're going to have, probably more valid because

0:43:17.680,0:43:23.200
essentially you're doing user testing, so I
think we really need to see that start to happen.

0:43:23.840,0:43:29.200
And the last point I just wanted to make was
around how we integrate the patient perspective.

0:43:29.200,0:43:34.160
So again, going back to what I said earlier, 
sometimes we have these very sophisticated

0:43:34.160,0:43:39.120
processes for patient involvement, we can bring
the patients to the table, we listen to what

0:43:39.120,0:43:43.680
they have to say but as soon as they leave the
room we think okay but how do we integrate that

0:43:43.680,0:43:48.720
into what we're trying to do here? So it's one
thing to sort of generate evidence or generate

0:43:48.720,0:43:54.560
a perspective but it's another thing to integrate that
into the decision-making process. I think we need

0:43:54.560,0:43:59.120
to think a little bit more about how we use that
patient perspective in the most meaningful way.

0:44:00.960,0:44:04.560
Thank you Donna, and also thanks for
calling out specifically the need for

0:44:04.560,0:44:10.480
a greater diversity in patient representation then
definitely a a key issue and an important issue

0:44:10.480,0:44:15.840
at the moment. Before I hand back to Chas,
I thought now might be the opportune time to

0:44:15.840,0:44:21.440
to take a question from the audience and
actually funny enough, it's a question that's

0:44:21.440,0:44:28.880
sort of going to get directed back to you Chas,
Bernard asks, during COVID 19 we saw collaborative

0:44:28.880,0:44:34.000
innovation by way of the Oxford AstraZeneca
vaccine. What do you think are the obstacles

0:44:34.000,0:44:40.800
to collaborative innovation in normal times? Thank
you Srin and thank you Bernard for the question.

0:44:41.520,0:44:46.800
I actually think there aren't any obstacles,
I think the important thing is that

0:44:46.800,0:44:54.400
all of us in this ecosystem have to recognise
what are our strengths and what are our weaknesses.

0:44:55.680,0:45:02.320
I think we have to be humble enough to admit what
our weaknesses are and then we need to work with

0:45:02.320,0:45:09.760
partners who have strengths in those areas. So with
the Oxford AstroZeneca vaccine there is no way

0:45:10.480,0:45:14.560
we would have been able to
manufacture three billion samples

0:45:14.560,0:45:19.600
of the vaccine and distribute them to low, middle
and high income countries all over the world.

0:45:20.160,0:45:27.280
We had to partner with a company like AstroZeneca,
and so already in Oxford, in the

0:45:27.280,0:45:33.280
structural genomics consortium where
we've been working for the past more than a decade

0:45:33.280,0:45:40.640
with 10 large pharma companies, seven patient
organisations, more than 200 academic labs

0:45:40.640,0:45:45.520
and what we've been trying to do is just create
win-win scenarios. There are things that we can

0:45:45.520,0:45:52.320
do well, there are things that our partners
can do better than we can, and we just

0:45:52.320,0:45:56.800
need to work together, and by working together
we're increasing the probability of success.

0:45:59.360,0:46:04.240
Did that help Srin, Bernard? I think it did
and I think it's actually back to you

0:46:04.240,0:46:08.800
anyway Chas to take the conversation further.
Well thank you, Srin, so maybe I could throw a

0:46:08.800,0:46:14.400
question back at Peteris again. How
can the commission work with health innovators

0:46:14.960,0:46:20.720
and other stakeholders to move to a
more holistic community-centred approach?

0:46:27.440,0:46:29.120


0:46:34.160,0:46:36.960


0:46:37.840,0:46:45.760
My mic ... I think we're, I'm having
problems hearing you, is that, is it just me?

0:46:49.520,0:46:56.480
...

0:46:56.480,0:47:02.320
The question was how can
the commission work with health innovators

0:47:02.320,0:47:07.760
and other stakeholders to move to a more
holistic community-centered approach?

0:47:09.680,0:47:14.000
Well thank you, that's an excellent
question. As you all know, I'm not

0:47:14.000,0:47:20.000
responsible for e-health now
but in the past including with 

0:47:21.200,0:47:26.960
Oxford where I was honoured that my article From
Spectators to Change Agents: Empowering Europeans

0:47:30.400,0:47:33.840
as Drivers of e-Health Innovation was public

0:47:36.000,0:47:40.400
[...] the
research of biomedical technology

0:47:40.400,0:47:44.560
standard setting in Europe - and in its
Baltic region and what's relevant here,

0:47:44.560,0:47:49.360
I think we have two main areas
of engagement with the stakeholders

0:47:49.360,0:47:55.280
and particularly with the individual patients.
First of all we want them to be enabled to manage

0:47:56.560,0:48:02.880
their health themselves, this gets especially
not getting away from the great care of

0:48:04.960,0:48:10.720
Peteris, I think we're having problems with ...
can I suggest I

0:48:10.720,0:48:16.560
hand back to Srin to take over. I'm sorry about that
Peteris, we couldn't hear a lot of what

0:48:16.560,0:48:26.240
you would ... let's throw it over to you no problem.
Thanks Peteris, thanks Chas, actually as you

0:48:26.240,0:48:30.960
see behind the two chairs, actually I'd be curious
to actually get some of your thoughts on that in

0:48:30.960,0:48:37.360
the sense, what is your perspective of how to
better involve patients and community voices more

0:48:37.360,0:48:41.680
within sort of the research and intellectual
endeavours of an institution like Oxford?

0:48:43.120,0:48:50.880
Well that's a tough one, Srin, so 
I recognise, I'm very lucky to be

0:48:50.880,0:48:56.960
working where I do - Oxford, frankly,
it's a magnet for talent; we have

0:48:56.960,0:49:05.280
superstar students, researchers, faculty, we have an
amazing international alumni network who are keen

0:49:05.280,0:49:12.640
to work with us to address big global problems, the
university has an amazing brand name and convening

0:49:12.640,0:49:20.160
power, we're working with lots of companies, we have
an awesome collaboration with Novartis, in fact,

0:49:20.160,0:49:27.360
and our big data institute where colleagues are
working together on using AI to accelerate the

0:49:27.360,0:49:33.360
discovery of new medicines and multiple approaches.
Let me share with you, over the past year

0:49:33.360,0:49:38.400
many people have reached out to me and asked
me the following question, why is Oxford in the

0:49:38.400,0:49:43.840
news on a daily basis? Why is Oxford now the
most talked about university on the planet?

0:49:44.880,0:49:49.360
And of course we've got great people
and we've got great resources and we've got

0:49:49.360,0:49:52.640
great infrastructure but many
other institutions have got that.

0:49:53.200,0:49:59.920
I think there are two things that are probably
pretty important; one is culture, we have a culture

0:49:59.920,0:50:06.480
here of collaboration. We recognise that the world
is facing some big challenges. Today we're talking

0:50:06.480,0:50:12.720
about healthcare but you know climate pollution
energy etc these are big global challenges

0:50:12.720,0:50:16.320
and the only way we're going to tackle
those challenges is by coming together,

0:50:16.320,0:50:21.520
coming together across disciplines, across
departments, across divisions, working with

0:50:21.520,0:50:28.480
other institutions, other universities, working with
industry, governments, regulators, funders etc etc

0:50:28.480,0:50:34.240
patient groups, society more broadly. We have to
work together as that is the only way we're going to

0:50:34.240,0:50:41.040
accelerate new medicines for Alzheimer's or mental
health or multiple sclerosis or aging or rare

0:50:41.040,0:50:48.080
diseases etc. The second thing is I think in Oxford
we're lucky that we have a culture of ambition.

0:50:49.120,0:50:54.560
I'm often saying to many of my colleagues
and sort of - and forgive me, this is a bit of a bias -

0:50:54.560,0:51:00.320
but I'm not interested in incremental research,
what we need to do is we need to do

0:51:00.320,0:51:06.400
transformative research, develop new
technologies and new platforms that are truly

0:51:06.400,0:51:12.480
going to change the world and going to benefit the
lives of millions of patients all over the world

0:51:12.480,0:51:18.000
and improves the lives of everybody on the planet.
So I hope that answers your question, Srin. 

0:51:21.360,0:51:27.760
Thanks for sharing that Chas. We're sort of moving
into sort of the final ten minutes

0:51:27.760,0:51:34.560
or so of this discussion and I want to start
moving more to a couple of audience questions 

0:51:34.560,0:51:40.800
and just looking through here, Peteris, are you
are you back with us? We hear you again. All right

0:51:41.600,0:51:47.200
I think so. Do you hear me? Good good yes I hear
you loud and clear. So we did have a question

0:51:47.200,0:51:55.040
from the audience directed at you, the
question was from Agata, it's whether you

0:51:55.040,0:52:00.800
could give examples of funding initiatives
available from the EU for e-medicine projects.

0:52:02.080,0:52:06.880
Definitely. As I said I'm not the person
in charge of this dossier right now, 

0:52:06.880,0:52:13.840
there is a ehealth head of unit, but in the next
horizon Europe programme, in the next multi-annual

0:52:13.840,0:52:19.360
financial framework our next budget there
is an increased amount for health research

0:52:19.360,0:52:26.080
and for e-health specifically. There's also a
very much beefed up health budget, if anything,

0:52:26.080,0:52:32.160
this crisis has shown that we need to invest
more also in health implementation, and then

0:52:32.160,0:52:39.440
in the recovery and resilience facility, which
is the 750 billion going to the member states

0:52:39.440,0:52:46.800
to reboot their economies after the COVID crisis
which hopefully will eventually be over. Health

0:52:46.800,0:52:54.480
is a vital part along with 20 per cent that is foreseen of
this funding to go to digital investment, much of

0:52:54.480,0:52:59.520
which can be digital health, this then depends on
the autonomy of the country and their decisions

0:52:59.520,0:53:06.240
in collaboration with the European Commission, plus
37 percent for climate investments, which also can

0:53:06.240,0:53:13.200
go in a health area. And being responsible for the
decentralized technologies now, I think one of the

0:53:13.200,0:53:20.160
effects that we're going to see coming out of the
crisis is that people have got out of the habit

0:53:20.160,0:53:25.920
of, because they haven't been able to, of having
regular health checkups, taking care of conditions

0:53:25.920,0:53:31.680
which are not Covid, they've maybe been tracking
more whether they have Covid, perhaps if we're

0:53:31.680,0:53:38.320
lucky their exercise and things that are doing it
at home but this link again to the health system

0:53:38.320,0:53:43.600
for regular health issues, for dental appointments
which haven't been accessible to many people,

0:53:44.160,0:53:49.440
and then plus, which is also a major goal for
us in the EU and, I think, for the science and

0:53:49.440,0:53:57.920
innovation community globally, getting people
to share their data and also to participate

0:53:58.480,0:54:04.480
in clinical trials where appropriate. I think this
has also - at least in a lot of parts of the world -

0:54:04.480,0:54:11.840
taken taken a big hit. I talk frequently
with the Caribbean, with Africa, with places where

0:54:11.840,0:54:18.720
people have not gotten - for instance - any vaccines,
and I think you're going to see scepticism

0:54:18.720,0:54:24.960
in Europe as well about people wanting to donate
their data for something where, at least for a time

0:54:24.960,0:54:30.800
period, they are not seeing any kind of benefit
for themselves and their neighbours. So this is

0:54:30.800,0:54:36.480
something else I think we're going to have to get
over and that something like blockchain and other

0:54:36.480,0:54:43.280
opportunities for people to be able to organise
the donation of their own data; and there's an

0:54:43.280,0:54:48.800
interesting example in the other place, in
Cambridge, a company called Fetch AI which works

0:54:48.800,0:54:54.400
with the NHS as well and artificial intelligence
on citizens managing their own health data.

0:54:56.400,0:55:03.120
Thank you Peteris. One additional question
I want to direct towards you, Vreni, and tweak it

0:55:03.120,0:55:09.760
slightly in the interests of time, it's a question
based on an original one submitted from Dahlia,

0:55:09.760,0:55:16.640
what are some best tips advice
for SMEs, startups to work with

0:55:16.640,0:55:21.280
with big pharmaceutical companies in
order to deliver innovative solutions?

0:55:27.040,0:55:32.560
I think you're on mute, Vreni.


0:55:33.600,0:55:37.360
If I'm hearing you correctly, the
question is collaborating with other SMEs. An

0:55:37.360,0:55:42.560
option for you to deliver innovative solutions
for detecting a disease earlier. Obviously yes:

0:55:42.560,0:55:49.120
I mean we're open to partnerships across the
board from an innovation perspective, I myself

0:55:49.120,0:55:54.720
am not necessarily going to be in
charge of all of those, but put large, I

0:55:54.720,0:56:00.000
mean as we've as Chas has said, as Donna has said
as Maayan has said, if you have said as well,

0:56:00.000,0:56:03.280
we have to put our heads together if we're
going to be addressing a lot of the challenges

0:56:03.280,0:56:07.520
that we're going to be seeing in terms of
the identification of new diseases, particularly

0:56:07.520,0:56:13.280
if we take for example Huntington's disease,
testing is going to be a big issue

0:56:13.280,0:56:17.760
 but I would actually turn this around and say
it's not just a question of having a

0:56:17.760,0:56:22.480
really accurate test, it's more of a question
of how do you make sure people have access to that

0:56:22.480,0:56:27.360
testing? How do you speed it up? How do we make
sure healthcare systems have the resources to

0:56:27.360,0:56:31.200
administer it? How do we to answer the challenge
that Donna has set? How do we involve patients

0:56:31.200,0:56:35.600
in this in the beginning and ask them do you want
to be tested, how do you want to be tested and

0:56:35.600,0:56:40.880
how is this integrated into this sort of 
broader systems of care? So yes, we're very open to

0:56:40.880,0:56:45.360
partnering with SMEs on these types of issues
but also with with other stakeholders as we've

0:56:45.360,0:56:49.520
been assisted here to ensure that the solutions
that we're delivering are actually fit to service.

0:56:52.000,0:56:59.040
Thanks Vreni, and give we've got about sort
of a few minutes left and before we start to wrap

0:56:59.040,0:57:04.880
I just sort of also want to open it to the
panel whether anyone has any final

0:57:04.880,0:57:11.120
thoughts on the subject that they would like to
share. There was a question to me about

0:57:11.120,0:57:18.880
where you can find startup information; so this
is quite simple, the Startup Europe Club, 

0:57:18.880,0:57:23.600
Step up, Scale up, Startup Europe Club, please
go there and you can also write to me directly.

0:57:25.360,0:57:32.000
Fantastic, thank you very much Peteris, and 
and so before I hand back over

0:57:32.000,0:57:37.600
to Chas, I just want to say like that I'm
incredibly encouraged and excited by all the

0:57:37.600,0:57:43.200
efforts discussed here today and I think we
can all agree there are still lots of challenges

0:57:43.200,0:57:47.920
faced ahead for folks with all sorts
of conditions, neurological included,

0:57:47.920,0:57:52.960
but feeling really optimistic that there are
lots of really amazing people working

0:57:52.960,0:57:57.760
hard to try and make this... try and make things
better for people and make sure that innovation

0:58:02.480,0:58:09.440
has...Chas, any final thoughts from you? Yeah thank you
Srin and colleagues, thank you so much for giving

0:58:09.440,0:58:14.320
up your time listen to this discussion,
Maybe I'll make three or four very brief

0:58:14.320,0:58:19.920
comments. Last year was an extraordinary
year, it changed the lives of every single

0:58:19.920,0:58:26.720
individual on this planet. But I think there were
some important lessons and we shouldn't forget

0:58:28.240,0:58:32.480
them. I think everybody recognises that
science and technology is important,

0:58:33.280,0:58:39.440
universities are important, industry is important,
regulators and doing stuff at speed is important,

0:58:40.080,0:58:45.360
making use of - in the UK - the national
health system is incredibly important

0:58:45.360,0:58:51.760
but manufacturing, diagnostics is important
but the other thing is we need great leaders,

0:58:51.760,0:58:59.360
great innovators and great entrepreneurs. It's
people who make magic happen, and we need great

0:58:59.360,0:59:03.840
collaborations and great partnerships
if we're going to accelerate solutions

0:59:04.480,0:59:09.600
to some of the problems that this planet is facing.
The second thing I'd say is  

0:59:10.800,0:59:17.200
healthcare in the next couple of decades is
going to get completely transformed, not by

0:59:17.200,0:59:23.680
people like me - clinicians, biologists, chemists -
it's going to get transformed by engineers,

0:59:24.320,0:59:32.000
computational scientists, statisticians, material
scientists etc. The third comment I'd make is

0:59:32.000,0:59:39.200
that sort of my ambition for Oxford is I want
Oxford to be the European hub for innovation

0:59:39.200,0:59:46.640
and enterprise in healthcare, and to that end what
we're doing is we're attracting lots more industry,

0:59:46.640,0:59:53.840
lots more investors, lots more innovators etc
that's the way to do it. And my final comment is

0:59:54.560,1:00:01.840
- having listened to Srin and Vreni
and Peteris and Maayan and Donna -

1:00:01.840,1:00:08.320
I'm always inspired by such colleagues, and I
think I'm so lucky to be working in an environment

1:00:08.960,1:00:19.280
on problems with people like that. It is just
a source of energy for me on a daily basis so

1:00:19.280,1:00:30.160
colleagues, thank you so much. Finally I've got to
announce that there is now a new

1:00:30.160,1:00:38.720
MSc in Global Healthcare Leadership which is
being organised jointly by the Nuffield Department

1:00:38.720,1:00:45.040
of Primary Care Health sciences and the Business
School here in Oxford, and on Friday this week

1:00:45.040,1:00:51.040
at one o'clock, there's an online session where
you can find out more about the course and how to

1:00:51.040,1:00:57.920
apply. But ladies and gentlemen thank you very much,
thank you for everything you're doing and I hope

1:00:58.560,1:01:03.280
you can get a chance to meet face to face,
but more importantly I hope soon we get a

1:01:03.280,1:01:07.520
chance to work together to solve
the big problem so thank you very

1:01:09.440,1:01:15.280
much. Srin, back to you. Super and again just to wrap
up, thank you everyone for joining us and I

1:01:15.280,1:01:19.920
know there are some other questions that have been
submitted and unfortunately we didn't have time to

1:01:19.920,1:01:24.480
get to all questions today unfortunately, but thank
you so much for joining and for submitting those

1:01:24.480,1:01:29.600
questions. The final thing I've been asked to share
about is that the Leadership in Extraordinary

1:01:29.600,1:01:36.960
Times will be back in May so stay tuned
for social media updates and email newsletters

1:01:36.960,1:01:42.000
of them, as I'm sure information
about future events shall be shared. So on

1:01:42.000,1:01:46.880
that note, thank you ever so much to everybody
for joining us today, and to our panellists and I 

1:01:46.880,1:02:05.840
hope everyone has a great day in wherever
they are in the world, thank you bye-bye.

1:02:24.880,1:02:25.380