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[Music]

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Hello and welcome to

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today's Leadership in Extraordinary

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Times event from Oxford University's Saïd

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Business School.

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Wherever in the world you are, thank you

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for joining us.

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I'm Sue Dopson, I serve as Deputy Dean at

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the Business School and also a professor

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of organisational behaviour.

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Today's debate is both timely and

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critical.

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The subject of our discussion is

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Navigating the next

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normal: a view from female leaders. I'm

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delighted to be

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joined by three female leaders;

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Baroness Ruby Mcgregor Smith, welcome.

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Baroness

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Ruby Mcgregor Smith is President of the

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British Chamber

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of Commerce and a Conservative life peer.

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Ruby was formerly the CEO of Mitie

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Group PLC,

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a leading facilities and service giant;

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she's one of only a small number of

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female

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FTSE 350 chief executives,

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and the first Asian woman to be appointed

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to such a position.

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Ruby is an active board director across

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business and government,

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she's championed for diversity in the

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workplace, and advises the House of Lords

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on issues

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including gender and the ethnicity pay gap.

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In 2017 Ruby published an independent

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review on

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race in the workplace. Huge welcome, thank

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you

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for joining us. We're also joined by Dame

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Vivian

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Hunt. Vivian is a senior partner for

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McKinsey

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and Company UK and Ireland, having served

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the firm for over 25 years.

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She has been named the most influential

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black woman in Britain and one of the

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top

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25 consultants in the world. At

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McKinsey's Dame Vivian has co-authored

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many influential publications

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focusing on tying diversity

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to financial performance, and is a

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passionate advocate for inclusivity

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in the workplace.

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Dame Vivian is on the board of several

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significant business groups, charitable

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and educational bodies.

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Recently she was appointed by the Prime

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Minister as a member of the Buildback

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Better Council, focused on advising the

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government on recovery

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after the Coronavirus crisis;

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welcome. And finally, we're joined by

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Kathryn Bishop.

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Kathryn is an associate fellow at

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the Business School and also

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Chair of the Welsh Revenue Authority.

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She is interested in women's leadership

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and careers -- indeed she directs and

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teaches

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on our School's development programmes for

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women -- and her new book

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called 'Make your own map', about

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strategies for women's working lives,

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has just been published by Kogan Page; so

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welcome Kathryn. So we have some

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wonderful

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guests for us to have this debate

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with;

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you, of course can get involved in the

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discussion; we want this to be

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a very interactive session, do ask your

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questions via the chat box

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on whatever platform you're watching on:

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Linkedin, Facebook or YouTube.

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If you can keep your questions brief

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please, and make sure you tell us

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both who you are and where you are,

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that would be fantastic.

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So let's get on the way then and I think

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the first question

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to all our panelists is really: what have

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we learnt

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about leadership during the pandemic? And

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maybe if I can invite

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Ruby first, please.

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Thank you, Sue, it's such a big question

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isn't it? What we learned from

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leadership during this pandemic. I mean, I

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certainly take away

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just how how much stress how much

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anxiety I've seen

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in individuals over the last year

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or so, and how I've seen leaders very

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much respond to that

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in a positive way. I think it's

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the first time so many of us have had to

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think about the health consequences

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for everybody that works with us.

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I think there's not been a huge amount

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of focus that I've seen in Britain so

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far,

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as of this week, the way out of where

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we currently stand.

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And I also think - I don't know about all

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of you - but in terms of leadership for me

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it's also authentic leadership,

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purpose-built leadership,

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we've seen it all, but I think what I've

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seen the most is,

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I'm almost craving as we do start to

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come out of this,

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a real focus on positivity and

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excitement,

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because so far over the last year we

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haven't really seen that. We've been

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dealing with a crisis like no other

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that has constantly changed almost

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weekly

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and made us all change direction in what

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we're doing. I've seen across the

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companies I advise some real challenges,

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as you can imagine, in aviation:

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it's literally floored the aviation

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market, tourism

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and travel market. In others it's put

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things back and in others it's

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it's meant a complete switch to digital.

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But what I think,

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through all of that, has really really

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made me feel quite positive

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has been how people have come together

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and thought about

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what is the real purpose of business and

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leadership as we start to come out of

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this.

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So it's been quite mixed but I think

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it's 

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going to be very interesting as we

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continue the debate today

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on what are our real reflections for the

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future.

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Thank you, thank you. Vivian, over to you.

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I guess I'd have some reflections from a

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professional perspective working with

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companies across different sectors; Ruby

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already mentioned the aviation

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industry, along with hospitality which is

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probably the most significantly hit,

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both in the UK as well as globally, all

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the way through

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to companies that might be developing

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vaccines or

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making the products that we need to keep

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our environment safe,

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or essential services like food delivery

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that are feeling a huge

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responsibility to do those jobs

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excellently and well. This is not

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a casual moment, it is a serious 

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threat and shared experience around our

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lives and public health and even with

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the prospect

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of at-scale vaccinations and/or herd

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immunity

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in the future, that's not going to happen

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until 2022.

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So we have a long way to go, another full

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year I would say

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of more optimistic context but still

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very serious management

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of 'am I in a good position locally with

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my health status? Is my family safe?

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is my business secure? etc' and then as

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business leaders you also have to

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respond

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with a new level of engagement and

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empathy. I

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often say, if we weren't talking about

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COVID,

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the economic crisis, and the crisis

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around social justice

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that amplified this year, the issues we

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would be discussing around purpose-led

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businesses,

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particularly around an ESG agenda and

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or the impact of technology on work,

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polarising globalization, you know, there

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are multiple huge vectors

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on our generation and on us as business

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leaders and I do think it has resulted

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in a much more authentic and plain

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speaking type of business style

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that I hope stays, because I do

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think to cut through

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the complexity and seriousness of the

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issues we're having,

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you know, we need just a little bit more

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real talk from our leaders. I also think

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it's why you've seen

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some female leaders do particularly well

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during this crisis because bringing in

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multiple variables,

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handling this type of contextual

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complexity, going from the personal

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individual care situation,

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and just empathy and real presence and

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care

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that you see in Jacinda's face

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when she's serving her population, all

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the way through to her commitment to

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transparent and syndicated

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decision-making

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as she leads in her elected

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responsibilities as Prime Minister.

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So I just want to highlight that we talk

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about what do women bring to the party,

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or in times of crisis, does female

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leadership matter?

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I think we're seeing lots of examples of

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where

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leadership that's more authentic

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genuinely informed by your priorities

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and has economics and

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empathy,

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which is more typical of female

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leadership patterns --

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men who have that are doing better as

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well -- so it's just to say we should be

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confident

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that the skill set that female

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leaders bring, I think will be

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particularly relevant

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as we continue to navigate what I think

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will still be quite choppy waters.

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Thank you Vivian, thank you. And

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Kathryn,

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perhaps I can ask you to comment on

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what we've learned?

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Sue, thank you. I think for everybody it's

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been an extraordinarily difficult

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experience and

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one of the bits of optimism that we

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could cling on to is that I think we

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have

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learnt a lot of things. I've been quite

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struck by

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two in particular and they are both

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things that we knew in theory and that

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we knew from research

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but which I think we've seen in practice

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over the last

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year. One of them is that

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there isn't going to be a single hero

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leader with

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all the answers; this is a complex

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situation,

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it changes rapidly, it morphs into

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different 

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contexts. It may technically be the

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same storm

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but we're all in different boats and so

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how could any one person

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have a single set of answers that covers

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all our different perspectives?

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So we really are beginning to see that

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we do need collaboration, the ability to

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ask

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good questions and listen; really, really

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listen

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to the answers. We knew that in theory

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but I think we have all experienced

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that

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to some extent and one of our challenges

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will be to cling on to that, to take it

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with us as we go into the next normal.

289
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The second thing I've really been

290
00:10:08,399 --> 00:10:12,640
struck by, and 

291
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I think this is a source of optimism,

292
00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:18,079
is that leadership is everywhere in all

293
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parts of an organisation or a community,

294
00:10:18,079 --> 00:10:23,519
and we've seen all sorts of examples of

295
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solutions to problems or new ideas

296
00:10:23,519 --> 00:10:29,920
simply being taken up and implemented by

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somebody with energy straight away:

298
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in communities, organising local food

299
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deliveries,

300
00:10:32,959 --> 00:10:37,519
in organisations changing the way

301
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services and goods are delivered,

302
00:10:37,519 --> 00:10:41,680
or even individuals at home deciding

303
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that they will step up and do something

304
00:10:41,680 --> 00:10:46,480
about

305
00:10:42,560 --> 00:10:49,360
a PPE problem. So leadership

306
00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:50,480
is not so much a characteristic of a

307
00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:53,200
person

308
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but, as some of my colleagues have

309
00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:58,000
written in recent articles,

310
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is a 'shared property of the wider

311
00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:01,600
system

312
00:10:58,560 --> 00:11:03,760
in which the leader operates.' You don't

313
00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:06,160
have to have a title or a big office

314
00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:07,600
to be a leader, and I think we thought we

315
00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,760
knew that in theory

316
00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:12,240
but we've absolutely seen it in practice

317
00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:13,360
over the last 12 months.

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Thank you, thank you for those

319
00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:18,079
reflections, panel.

320
00:11:15,680 --> 00:11:18,880
So now moving just to think about

321
00:11:18,079 --> 00:11:20,959
what leadership

322
00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:22,720
do we actually need going forward? Having

323
00:11:20,959 --> 00:11:24,800
reflected on what we've learned,

324
00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,240
what kind of leadership do we need going

325
00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,760
forward? Maybe we start with Vivian

326
00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:31,120
please.

327
00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:32,480
Well I think the the gems are in some

328
00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:33,519
of Kathryn's comments about the

329
00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:34,720
characteristics

330
00:11:33,519 --> 00:11:37,200
of the leadership

331
00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:40,160
environment we need; so if we

332
00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,720
no longer have a hierarchical view it's

333
00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:42,560
much more,

334
00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:45,120
let me call it, team-based and system-

335
00:11:42,560 --> 00:11:47,839
view, and it's also much more agile,

336
00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,560
particularly if we use technology and

337
00:11:47,839 --> 00:11:50,880
networks,

338
00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:52,000
relationships to connect between us.

339
00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,760
And I think if

340
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,760
you think about modern leadership models,

341
00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:57,600
they are much more distributed

342
00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:59,360
in terms of how you structure your

343
00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,200
operating rhythm, think about hybrid

344
00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:03,040
working as a permanent way of working,

345
00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:05,360
not just an urgent response to a health

346
00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:06,480
challenge, think about a distributed,

347
00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:10,720
syndicated,

348
00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:12,480
pulse-based sentiment analysis to inform

349
00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:14,959
decisions about your customers or

350
00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,160
employee base, using AI to inform

351
00:12:14,959 --> 00:12:18,399
leadership decisions

352
00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:20,160
so the voice of your stakeholders is

353
00:12:18,399 --> 00:12:22,079
available to you and in the room,

354
00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,600
you're not hyper focusing, only on one

355
00:12:22,079 --> 00:12:26,240
representative,

356
00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:27,600
sort of the one or two female leaders

357
00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,120
that you might have, but you actually

358
00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,240
have sentiment across your customers,

359
00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,160
your supply chain

360
00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:34,959
government. So you need to use

361
00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:36,800
technology and you also need to

362
00:12:34,959 --> 00:12:38,160
listen at a deeper level to motivation

363
00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,839
to solve

364
00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:41,760
problems and that could be around new

365
00:12:39,839 --> 00:12:42,240
demand, right, about what consumers are

366
00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,480
needing;

367
00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:45,440
it could be around the stresses and

368
00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,600
relief

369
00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:49,440
and structures and support that your

370
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,880
employees need.

371
00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:53,680
There was someone who was commenting

372
00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:56,320
about the paradox of having

373
00:12:53,680 --> 00:12:57,440
more empathetic, collaborative leadership

374
00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:00,399
models needed

375
00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:01,920
at the same time that many people, but

376
00:13:00,399 --> 00:13:04,240
particularly women,

377
00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,839
are really being crushed by the pincer

378
00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:06,639
movement of their responsibilities at

379
00:13:05,839 --> 00:13:08,880
work;

380
00:13:06,639 --> 00:13:11,040
a higher proportion of frontline jobs,

381
00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:14,560
higher health vulnerability,

382
00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:15,200
and domestic responsibilities where

383
00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:17,200
even

384
00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:18,880
with the most engaged partner in the

385
00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:22,079
world 

386
00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:23,839
most women in relationships and

387
00:13:22,079 --> 00:13:26,480
whoever is taking the lead role

388
00:13:23,839 --> 00:13:27,200
domestically in a relationship is taking

389
00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:29,440
on three

390
00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,800
to five times the amount of domestic and

391
00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:33,839
care responsibilities.

392
00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:35,120
And I can tell you just in

393
00:13:33,839 --> 00:13:38,000
our own household

394
00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:39,600
it is been really challenging to

395
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,120
navigate those things and still be able

396
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,480
to lead properly at work.

397
00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,880
So when you say 'what do you need for the

398
00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:47,120
future?' I think things like collaboration,

399
00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,720
broader inclusion of stakeholders, using

400
00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:49,600
technology as a way to work more

401
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:52,639
flexibly

402
00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:54,560
but still stay connected,

403
00:13:52,639 --> 00:13:55,839
deeper listening and empathy, a lot of

404
00:13:54,560 --> 00:13:58,000
the elements I think are

405
00:13:55,839 --> 00:13:59,199
are in Kathryn's thesis but we also

406
00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:02,320
have to realise

407
00:13:59,199 --> 00:14:03,360
that leaders themselves, each of us, you

408
00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,279
know, are also at

409
00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:07,040
a moment when you can very easily become

410
00:14:05,279 --> 00:14:08,800
hyper-stressed, you know, too much

411
00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:09,680
technology, too much input, too much

412
00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:11,279
information,

413
00:14:09,680 --> 00:14:13,360
not enough clarity. So you've got to make

414
00:14:11,279 --> 00:14:14,079
sure your own resilience and well-being

415
00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,880
is strong,

416
00:14:14,079 --> 00:14:19,199
because the world is more complex and

417
00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:22,639
leaders need to be able to manage

418
00:14:19,199 --> 00:14:24,399
just hopefully share that complexity

419
00:14:22,639 --> 00:14:25,839
and structure of decision-making; but

420
00:14:24,399 --> 00:14:27,519
particularly for,

421
00:14:25,839 --> 00:14:29,519
and this is a view from a female leader,

422
00:14:27,519 --> 00:14:30,240
but also for female leaders in

423
00:14:29,519 --> 00:14:33,519
particular,

424
00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:35,519
particularly for women who have

425
00:14:33,519 --> 00:14:37,680
on average significantly more caring

426
00:14:35,519 --> 00:14:39,440
responsibilities.

427
00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:41,199
Thank you, thank you. Kathryn, do you

428
00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,399
want to reflect on what kind of

429
00:14:41,199 --> 00:14:45,360
leadership we would need

430
00:14:42,399 --> 00:14:45,920
in the future? Thank you, yes I think I'd

431
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:49,279
like to say

432
00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:53,279
two things. So in the longer term

433
00:14:49,279 --> 00:14:55,680
I am really hoping for and optimistic

434
00:14:53,279 --> 00:14:56,959
about the possibilities of situations in

435
00:14:55,680 --> 00:15:00,079
which there is a much

436
00:14:56,959 --> 00:15:03,360
greater range of leadership styles from

437
00:15:00,079 --> 00:15:06,160
men and women, a recognition 

438
00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:08,240
that variety of leadership approaches in

439
00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:11,680
itself

440
00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:12,639
adds value and is useful, but over the

441
00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,720
course of the next

442
00:15:12,639 --> 00:15:17,680
12 months I think we all have a

443
00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:20,160
particular challenge to face,

444
00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:22,240
and that is balancing the needs of the

445
00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:23,839
short-term and urgent - the stuff that has

446
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,680
to be done right now -

447
00:15:23,839 --> 00:15:27,760
while simultaneously starting to think

448
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:30,480
about the medium and the long term

449
00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:31,120
and I sometimes describe this as a need

450
00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:34,000
for

451
00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,959
a different kind of zooming ability from

452
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:38,079
leaders.

453
00:15:34,959 --> 00:15:41,199
We need to be able to zoom in and solve

454
00:15:38,079 --> 00:15:43,920
something that has to be fixed right now,

455
00:15:41,199 --> 00:15:45,440
as we did in the first weeks and months

456
00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:48,240
of the crisis,

457
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:49,279
but we also need to be able to zoom out

458
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:52,399
and consider

459
00:15:49,279 --> 00:15:54,480
the long-term implications and how

460
00:15:52,399 --> 00:15:55,519
scenarios might play out in the

461
00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:59,600
future.

462
00:15:55,519 --> 00:16:02,880
Take a simple example,

463
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:04,240
if we are thinking about remote

464
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,560
working patterns

465
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:09,120
and the choices that we're all going to

466
00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:11,120
have to make about where we want to work,

467
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,240
we're going to have to make those

468
00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,079
authentically as

469
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,600
best works for the range of

470
00:16:14,079 --> 00:16:18,240
responsibilities that we have

471
00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,600
at work and outside, but we're also going

472
00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,120
to have to consider the medium and

473
00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:24,240
long-term implications of,

474
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:27,360
let's say for example, a world in which

475
00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:30,079
most women have chosen to work from home

476
00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:32,000
most of the time and most men have

477
00:16:30,079 --> 00:16:34,320
chosen to work in the office

478
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:36,160
most of the time; that will make the

479
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,759
culture of the organisation quite

480
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:40,800
different and what will it do

481
00:16:37,759 --> 00:16:41,600
to performance and promotion regimes, who

482
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,839
knows?

483
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:45,040
That's an example of what looks

484
00:16:43,839 --> 00:16:47,600
like a short-term,

485
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:49,279
zoomed-in choice that actually has some

486
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:51,040
medium-term implications, and that's what

487
00:16:49,279 --> 00:16:54,720
we are really going to have to balance

488
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:54,720
over the next year in particular,

489
00:16:55,120 --> 00:17:00,320
And Ruby? You know when I think about

490
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,920
leadership of the future I kind of

491
00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:04,559
think very much around how it needs to

492
00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:07,520
be authentic, it needs to be team-based

493
00:17:04,559 --> 00:17:10,000
it needs to be empathetic, we have far

494
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,959
too many examples of non-empathetic

495
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,919
leaders,

496
00:17:10,959 --> 00:17:16,079
which I've never agreed with and

497
00:17:13,919 --> 00:17:16,959
I'd much rather talk about how I felt as

498
00:17:16,079 --> 00:17:19,199
a leader

499
00:17:16,959 --> 00:17:20,799
than not talk about it at all because

500
00:17:19,199 --> 00:17:22,160
it's the only way you can connect to the

501
00:17:20,799 --> 00:17:24,079
people you work with,

502
00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:26,160
and it's about time people

503
00:17:24,079 --> 00:17:28,240
saw leaders for what they really are;

504
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:30,559
their strengths, their weaknesses, you

505
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:32,480
know, we don't have to have this culture,

506
00:17:30,559 --> 00:17:34,240
this constant culture, of it all has to

507
00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,440
be perfect. I don't know about everybody

508
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,600
on this call,

509
00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:39,360
but you know life isn't perfect; we all

510
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:41,600
have good days, we all have bad days,

511
00:17:39,360 --> 00:17:44,320
about time we talked about it a bit more.

512
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:45,120
And we need to have a leadership

513
00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:46,880
style

514
00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:48,720
in any of every organization that

515
00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:51,679
completely brings together

516
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:53,360
all the talent and organisation has.

517
00:17:51,679 --> 00:17:54,720
You know, I'm looking forward to a day

518
00:17:53,360 --> 00:17:56,960
where we don't have to talk about

519
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:59,039
diversity and inclusion in the workplace

520
00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,720
because it's a given; I want to talk

521
00:17:59,039 --> 00:18:02,480
about, I don't want to talk about why we

522
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:04,320
need the ethnicity pay gap,

523
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,600
because it's a given that we do all

524
00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,760
these things properly,

525
00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:10,320
you know. We need to move to a much

526
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:11,919
fairer workplace for all of society

527
00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,600
and that's what future leaders need to

528
00:18:11,919 --> 00:18:16,720
do as we come out of this.

529
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:19,039
And finally I'll say we need positivity;

530
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,960
the word positivity is something I think

531
00:18:19,039 --> 00:18:22,960
we're all craving - I certainly am -

532
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:24,080
I watched the news last night and, oh my

533
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:27,360
gosh,

534
00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:29,200
I was craving, wanting to watch a D-list celebrity,

535
00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:31,200
as opposed to the scientists that are

536
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,960
out every single day

537
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,720
telling us why we're not allowed to do

538
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:37,280
anything including

539
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:39,039
going on holiday, not filling a form in

540
00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:41,280
incorrectly. And I thought, my god,

541
00:18:39,039 --> 00:18:42,640
it's about time the human spirit kicks

542
00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,559
back against this

543
00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,760
so that we can all get our lives back; so

544
00:18:44,559 --> 00:18:47,600
positivity

545
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:49,679
and excitement from future leaders

546
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:51,360
please.

547
00:18:49,679 --> 00:18:53,120
Thank you, I find myself reading HELLO!

548
00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:54,480
magazine more regularly than normal as

549
00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:56,480
well, so thank you very much

550
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,679
for that. If people have got questions

551
00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:00,160
please 

552
00:18:57,679 --> 00:19:02,080
fill them in and send them in to

553
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:04,480
us because it's super to hear from you.

554
00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:05,600
Just pull out a comment from Sarah

555
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,280
Richie;

556
00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,960
she says it's interesting how women are

557
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:10,880
valued for empathetic leadership in a

558
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:13,120
time of crisis while losing jobs in

559
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:15,200
record numbers -- so an interesting 

560
00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:16,720
observation there. Send in your

561
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,960
questions, but we do have a question from

562
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:21,520
Sandra Peters in London

563
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:23,440
to the panellists, who asked, when

564
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,880
will we have the first woman president

565
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:27,200
of the U.S.?

566
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:28,880
Let's ask Vivian, do you want to go

567
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:32,080
for that?

568
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:35,200
Well I think there are probably 

569
00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:36,640
three observations: first is the

570
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:40,559
electoral evidence

571
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:44,400
of the U.S's ability to elect

572
00:19:40,559 --> 00:19:47,440
in the same diversity of the

573
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,919
population and the economy is proven by

574
00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:49,679
this

575
00:19:47,919 --> 00:19:51,120
most recent election and that is

576
00:19:49,679 --> 00:19:52,240
particularly around the voter

577
00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:53,919
registrations,

578
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,760
where and how different communities were

579
00:19:53,919 --> 00:19:57,039
activated, the efficiency of getting out

580
00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,960
a diverse vote,

581
00:19:57,039 --> 00:20:01,520
even though within diverse voters there

582
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:02,080
was still a change, I think 10 or 15

583
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:04,960
percent

584
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:06,799
of black men voted for Trump; I think a

585
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:08,480
third of Latinx voters

586
00:20:06,799 --> 00:20:10,799
voted for Trump, the balance for

587
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:12,080
Democrats; and as you have more genuine

588
00:20:10,799 --> 00:20:13,600
options and alternatives,

589
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:15,760
what you'll find is that there's a lot

590
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,960
of diversity within diverse communities

591
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:19,200
and we won't be

592
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:20,000
expecting people to vote only on, you

593
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,400
know, God forbid,

594
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,120
gender or ethnic stereotypes. It is women

595
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:24,799
who put

596
00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:27,280
Trump in office, it's women who took him

597
00:20:24,799 --> 00:20:30,799
out. So I would say that to say

598
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:32,720
one is the system whether it is a system

599
00:20:30,799 --> 00:20:33,840
of hiring in a company or the electoral

600
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:36,240
system in the U.S

601
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:37,679
or in the UK, you know, has to be diverse

602
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:38,720
and inclusive enough that the voice of

603
00:20:37,679 --> 00:20:40,320
the population

604
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,760
is and the shape of the things that are

605
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,520
driving 

606
00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,880
the economic and policy outcomes can be

607
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:45,840
heard; that's the first thing that's

608
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,280
required.

609
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,440
The second thing is, clearly we have a

610
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:50,960
female Vice President today. If Joe Biden

611
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:53,440
serves two terms

612
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:55,280
and she is successful in those terms,

613
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:57,039
she'll be a very strong candidate

614
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:58,559
for the top of the presidential ticket,

615
00:20:57,039 --> 00:21:01,280
and everything about her

616
00:20:58,559 --> 00:21:02,559
record, as well as their behaviour,

617
00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:03,440
indicates that they're preparing for

618
00:21:02,559 --> 00:21:05,200
that outcome.

619
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,960
But I don't think even when the

620
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,799
Democratic Party had 15

621
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,400
people in it, there was six or seven

622
00:21:08,799 --> 00:21:12,240
women who were there as well

623
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:14,320
and many of the female candidates did

624
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,120
very well, so we are more than knocking

625
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:16,960
on the door

626
00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:18,720
and I think you can begin to see the

627
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,280
names of people like Elizabeth Warren

628
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,600
and others.

629
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,640
The Republican side it's less clear that

630
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:25,520


631
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:27,360
a woman leader will come to the top

632
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,000
of the ticket at the same force but I

633
00:21:27,360 --> 00:21:29,360
think

634
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,679
it just depends on how much change

635
00:21:29,360 --> 00:21:33,600
happens. We're seeing this movie live,

636
00:21:31,679 --> 00:21:34,720
but I think it is very realistic that

637
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:38,320
within 10 years

638
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:38,320
we'll see a female president of the U.S.

639
00:21:38,799 --> 00:21:42,880
Any other panellists want to

640
00:21:40,159 --> 00:21:44,880
comment on that?

641
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:46,640
Okay if not, we've got a question from
,
642
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,720
Sarah Martin: what are your thoughts

643
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,679
about how women leaders can best help

644
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,600
those women

645
00:21:49,679 --> 00:21:53,440
who are clinging on to their careers in

646
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,240
this pandemic by the skin of their teeth?

647
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,400
Kathryn,

648
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:58,799
do you want to have a crack at that one?

649
00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:00,720
Thank you, thank you. Yes

650
00:21:58,799 --> 00:22:02,880
well probably this is a question

651
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:04,799
about resilience and I notice in the

652
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,640
chat that there was a question about

653
00:22:04,799 --> 00:22:08,880
developing resilience, and I

654
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:11,039
also noticed -- and this is tremendous --

655
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,919
that somebody else watching this event

656
00:22:11,039 --> 00:22:13,919
has 

657
00:22:11,919 --> 00:22:16,159
actually answered that question so

658
00:22:13,919 --> 00:22:19,280
there's a good lot of interplay already

659
00:22:16,159 --> 00:22:19,679
going in from those watching and

660
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:23,200
that's,

661
00:22:19,679 --> 00:22:26,240
I think, part of the answer: to

662
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:29,440
to make sure that we are 

663
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:33,039
supporting each other 

664
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:34,400
at work and outside. I sometimes

665
00:22:33,039 --> 00:22:35,840
tell the story of this,

666
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:38,400
what is sometimes referred to as the

667
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:40,480
strategy of amplification,

668
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,240
that female staff members in the White

669
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:44,320
House in 

670
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,760
Obama's term of office used, that is to

671
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:48,080
say 

672
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:49,039
to make sure that their voices are heard

673
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:52,480
by 

674
00:22:49,039 --> 00:22:54,960
literally, in a meeting, commenting back

675
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:56,400
that 'Mary said this, I thought

676
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,720
that was a really excellent

677
00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:00,880
idea, can we just return to that?', so

678
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:04,080
actually trying to provide support

679
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:06,400
in the workplace and acknowledging

680
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:09,840
and recognising and making sure 

681
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:13,360
voices are heard but ultimately

682
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:16,240
the responsibility for managing our own

683
00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:17,360
boundaries, the balance between work

684
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:20,720
life and home life

685
00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:22,880
lies with us. And of course balance -

686
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,559
it's a lovely word it sounds as if it's

687
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,880
smooth and balletic -

688
00:23:24,559 --> 00:23:27,840
but balance is really about always

689
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,520
nearly falling

690
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,600
to one side or the other so it's a

691
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:34,640
constant challenge

692
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:36,000
to cling on to useful and

693
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,679
rewarding work

694
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,200
while still discharging all your other

695
00:23:37,679 --> 00:23:42,320
responsibilities,

696
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:44,159
and there is no easy answer save to

697
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,120
draw on the advice and insight and

698
00:23:44,159 --> 00:23:48,559
support

699
00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:50,720
of those you know.

700
00:23:48,559 --> 00:23:52,480
Networks have always been important, I

701
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,520
think they're going to be even more

702
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,480
important in the

703
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:57,760
next normal as we are not in the office

704
00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,559
all the time,

705
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:02,840
as we struggle, perhaps alone, with issues

706
00:24:00,559 --> 00:24:05,120
that other people are also struggling

707
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:07,440
with.

708
00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:08,720
We've got a question from Edward

709
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,120
Phillips in Oxford:

710
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,320
life in New Zealand is pretty much

711
00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:14,960
back to normal -

712
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:16,559
sounds lovely - how much is that due to

713
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:19,919
the governmental style

714
00:24:16,559 --> 00:24:20,559
of Jacinda Ardern? Ruby, do you want to have

715
00:24:19,919 --> 00:24:24,080
a

716
00:24:20,559 --> 00:24:26,320
crack at that one? Thank you, look, I,

717
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,679
you know, wish we were sitting without

718
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,039
the restrictions that

719
00:24:27,679 --> 00:24:31,600
New Zealand have, wouldn't that be

720
00:24:29,039 --> 00:24:32,080
wonderful? I think part of the challenges

721
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,000
are

722
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,520
we're both very very different countries

723
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,360
and I can talk quite a lot about why we

724
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,559
didn't shut our borders last year in the

725
00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:40,320
UK.

726
00:24:38,559 --> 00:24:42,080
I think if you go down the route I think

727
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,520
the advantage very much for New Zealand,

728
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,960
for much of Asia,

729
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:47,360
is that they've dealt with infectious

730
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:51,200
diseases before

731
00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:53,760
and we have not had the impact of say,

732
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:55,440
SARS, as as one of the many examples

733
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:58,720
from many years ago,

734
00:24:55,440 --> 00:25:00,080
and we were not ready at all. I think if

735
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,799
I take a look at the leadership

736
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,919
style is that down to leadership? I think it

737
00:25:02,799 --> 00:25:06,400
very much is,

738
00:25:03,919 --> 00:25:08,080
but I think it's, you know, the

739
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,600
challenge I think for women leaders is

740
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,120
that when they get it right to begin

741
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,960
with it's great; when they get it wrong

742
00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:15,440
it's also because they're a woman,

743
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:17,200
it's not because of the strategy always.

744
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:19,440
I think she's done a great job

745
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,960
in managing to keep New Zealand on a

746
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,039
really good, even keel,

747
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,400
but the challenge will come for every

748
00:25:23,039 --> 00:25:28,080
country when they want to open

749
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:30,559
up because this virus doesn't,

750
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:32,159
if this virus isn't going away, so

751
00:25:30,559 --> 00:25:33,520
every country's got to have a long-term

752
00:25:32,159 --> 00:25:35,360
strategy to deal with it,

753
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:37,440
but I certainly applaud what she's done

754
00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:39,039
so far.

755
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,679
Thank you. Vivian would you like to add

756
00:25:39,039 --> 00:25:43,279
to that? Only to say that that every

757
00:25:41,679 --> 00:25:44,480
decision, decisions come with

758
00:25:43,279 --> 00:25:48,159
trade-offs so

759
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:51,840
by pulling hard on the health,

760
00:25:48,159 --> 00:25:54,480
the most conservative and

761
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,440
and restrictive approach on managing the

762
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,600
virus that is

763
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,720
within the island -- given it's a very

764
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,919
successful

765
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:03,679
operating model -- but when the economy,

766
00:26:01,919 --> 00:26:05,279
like all island economies including our

767
00:26:03,679 --> 00:26:07,600
own which are fundamentally

768
00:26:05,279 --> 00:26:09,600
interconnected trade-based economies,

769
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,880
the economic rebuild may be harder

770
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:14,000
because of the

771
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:15,200
severity of the public health

772
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,799
decisions. I think they were the right

773
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,320
decisions for New Zealand; we made a

774
00:26:16,799 --> 00:26:19,919
different set of decisions

775
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:22,080
and it's just knowing where you are on

776
00:26:19,919 --> 00:26:24,320
that continuum, but I just think that 

777
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:26,159
it's easy, like your pictures do say a

778
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:28,000
thousand words, but it's easy to look

779
00:26:26,159 --> 00:26:29,440
at pictures of people enjoying some of

780
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:32,400
the social interaction

781
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,720
and normal community that we would

782
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,080
all

783
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:39,440
crave here in Tier Four in the UK

784
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:41,360
and recognise that to

785
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,960
get back to that stage we have to do

786
00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:44,480
that gradually with trade-offs, and what

787
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,200
you see in many of the Asian economies

788
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,840
that are back

789
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,679
to about 0.8 of the travel and 0.8 of

790
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:52,080
the economic development, and I think

791
00:26:49,679 --> 00:26:52,720
China -- the numbers are to be believed as

792
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,360
the most

793
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,559
v-shaped recovery of any major

794
00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:58,400
economy so far,

795
00:26:56,559 --> 00:26:59,679
and they are six to nine months ahead of

796
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,640
us in terms of their systematic

797
00:26:59,679 --> 00:27:02,799
reopening

798
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,320
of the economy -- what you'll see is it's a

799
00:27:02,799 --> 00:27:06,480
combination of measures. There are still

800
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:08,240
many public health restrictions,

801
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,360
there's still many testing regimens,

802
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,200
there's still variants that they're

803
00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:12,240
managing and we'll still have to manage

804
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,320
those things as well,

805
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,520
but I'm optimistic the vaccine rollout

806
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,159
continues to go well;

807
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,200
in the UK our size is an advantage 

808
00:27:18,159 --> 00:27:21,360
and

809
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,960
secondly, if we can manage that

810
00:27:21,360 --> 00:27:24,320
with variants you know we'll

811
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,360
feel much better about all of these

812
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:28,320
things next year,

813
00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:29,600
but as Ruby said it's down to a good

814
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,320
strategy; a clear

815
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,200
well implemented strategy that is not

816
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,760
yet complete.

817
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,520
I don't - it's not only down to gender.

818
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,440
Yeah, thank you.

819
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:41,120
Great question that's coming from

820
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:43,440
Natalia,

821
00:27:41,120 --> 00:27:44,880
who asks; will the panel have views on

822
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,520
how to boost morale

823
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:49,360
and create excitement and engagement in

824
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,480
addition to aligning around purpose? I

825
00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:51,919
think this is a question for all the

826
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:54,640
panel; Kathryn, would you

827
00:27:51,919 --> 00:27:54,640
start for me?

828
00:27:55,279 --> 00:27:58,640
Oh goodness I wish I knew the answer to

829
00:27:57,039 --> 00:28:02,720
that; I'd be implementing 

830
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:06,559
all of them straight away.

831
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:08,720
Somebody said to me, are we really

832
00:28:06,559 --> 00:28:09,840
looking forward enough to the

833
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:13,520
opportunity

834
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:14,640
to meet in person, to do impromptu things?

835
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:17,919
I mean, there are good

836
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:19,279
times ahead definitely and

837
00:28:17,919 --> 00:28:20,720
I think one of the things I'm certainly

838
00:28:19,279 --> 00:28:22,480
resolving is not to take those for

839
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:26,080
granted

840
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:28,399
in future. In terms of creating

841
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:30,960
excitement and engagement I think

842
00:28:28,399 --> 00:28:32,159
conversations about the medium and long

843
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:35,679
term

844
00:28:32,159 --> 00:28:38,720
are a potential topic

845
00:28:35,679 --> 00:28:40,240
to draw in all sorts of people with

846
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:43,440
all sorts of experiences

847
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:45,840
and to generate some energy, because I do

848
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:48,480
have an optimistic sense that the

849
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,360
the very fluidity of the pandemic which

850
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,559
has been,

851
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:54,000
frankly, so wearisome, actually, also we

852
00:28:52,559 --> 00:28:57,039
have to remember it does bring

853
00:28:54,000 --> 00:29:00,320
opportunity and as we come out of it

854
00:28:57,039 --> 00:29:04,080
there will be opportunities to 

855
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:07,919
structure roles, to set boundaries,

856
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:08,399
to design work in ways that we've

857
00:29:07,919 --> 00:29:12,320
not

858
00:29:08,399 --> 00:29:14,000
been able to seize in the past, and

859
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:17,360
that's an opportunity for a very

860
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,360
energised conversation.

861
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:23,679
Ruby, do you want to comment? Yeah

862
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,120
it's, God, I really wish we had all the

863
00:29:23,679 --> 00:29:27,520
answers to this one,

864
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:29,039
I think around for me

865
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,960
excitement and morale

866
00:29:29,039 --> 00:29:32,320
is around coming together to fight for

867
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,320
our futures.

868
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,080
I'm fighting every day to have

869
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:39,600
industries I work in

870
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:41,200
opened up. I hear the health challenges;

871
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,960
this is a virus we're going to have to

872
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,120
live with, vaccine rollout

873
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:47,279
is going to be successful, and we're

874
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:50,240
going to get back to what we love,

875
00:29:47,279 --> 00:29:50,799
and the mere idea I sit here in Britain

876
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,679
today,

877
00:29:50,799 --> 00:29:55,200
not allowed to do anything except sit in

878
00:29:53,679 --> 00:29:58,000
my home,

879
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,039
sit on a laptop and work, go out and get

880
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,760
some food

881
00:29:59,039 --> 00:30:03,520
by myself, and maybe go out once a day

882
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:06,399
for some exercise,

883
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:07,840
that isn't life; that's existing. And so I

884
00:30:06,399 --> 00:30:10,159
think we come together around the

885
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,120
purpose of saying we want excitement we

886
00:30:10,159 --> 00:30:13,360
want fun,

887
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:15,039
we want to improve morale for everybody

888
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,480
and it's going to be a fight; you come

889
00:30:15,039 --> 00:30:18,320
together around things you really

890
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,799
believe in.

891
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,000
I sit with industries at the moment who

892
00:30:20,799 --> 00:30:24,240
who are in a tough,

893
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,720
tough place but what I

894
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:28,640
would say about the leadership teams are,

895
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,919
my god, they've got the excitement to

896
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,000
want to grow again.

897
00:30:29,919 --> 00:30:34,240
Because when we come out of this there

898
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,520
is going to be a huge amount of pent up

899
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,200
demand and growth

900
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,640
and that's, I think, very much the way to

901
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,120
focus on it and that's certainly what

902
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:44,159
keeps me sane every day.

903
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:46,559
Thank you, thank you, and Vivian finally.

904
00:30:44,159 --> 00:30:47,440
I think all of us are motivated by

905
00:30:46,559 --> 00:30:48,960
things 

906
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,559
that can be improved and building

907
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:54,159
towards something in the future,

908
00:30:50,559 --> 00:30:55,520
and one is that we deliver on the

909
00:30:54,159 --> 00:30:58,559
promises we're making now

910
00:30:55,520 --> 00:31:00,480
around integrating purpose 

911
00:30:58,559 --> 00:31:02,799
and multiple goals, be they environmental

912
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:05,039
goals, social impact,

913
00:31:02,799 --> 00:31:07,039
representative balance, good quality

914
00:31:05,039 --> 00:31:09,840
governance, you know, a transparent

915
00:31:07,039 --> 00:31:11,200
criteria based ethical operating

916
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:14,720
environment for

917
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:16,640
businesses and society;

918
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:19,039
you know, that businesses actually build

919
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,840
those into their long-term goals

920
00:31:19,039 --> 00:31:21,200
because we know

921
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,440
businesses that do that are more

922
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,559
successful and so that's a better

923
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,760
outcome for everyone,

924
00:31:24,559 --> 00:31:28,320
not just women or men. It does

925
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,640
disproportionately

926
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,000
benefit women and other historically

927
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,399
underrepresented goods,

928
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:36,000
but the tide rises for everyone, so this

929
00:31:34,399 --> 00:31:38,880
notion of businesses

930
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:40,480
figuring out, particularly in the last

931
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,320
Edelman survey as some of the most

932
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,919
trusted leaders in society at the moment,

933
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,760
whether we like it or not,

934
00:31:43,919 --> 00:31:47,760
figuring out how to really deliver on

935
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,120
that promise. It's not just Generation Z:

936
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:49,600
I think we all need it and if we

937
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:53,360
could

938
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:55,519
even build one, two, three concrete things

939
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,640
into how we lead differently concretely

940
00:31:55,519 --> 00:31:58,320
into our business

941
00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:00,880
and work outcomes, I think that's very

942
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,360
encouraging. Secondly I'll say flexible

943
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,360
working,

944
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,960
hybrid working models in the same way

945
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,840
that we have hybrid technology

946
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,200
environments;

947
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,880
we're going to have hybrid working

948
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,960
models and

949
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,880
when we opened our part-time programme at

950
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,640
scale in our office in the UK we found

951
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,720
60 percent - six zero -

952
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,240
of the participants on it were male, not

953
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,679
female, who had caring

954
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,960
responsibilities ,who wanted to write a

955
00:32:19,679 --> 00:32:22,640
book, who were 

956
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,080
facing health issues that they weren't

957
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:26,840
paying enough attention to.

958
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:28,880
So this notion of flexible working, it

959
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:31,120
disproportionately helps women

960
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:33,360
because of our increased

961
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:36,720
responsibilities, care responsibilities,

962
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:37,519
the fact that we have more explicit life

963
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,000
stages

964
00:32:37,519 --> 00:32:40,880
around either maternity leaves or caring

965
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,200
for older

966
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:45,120
parents that we'll hit the end 

967
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,840
and press pause sometimes, before a man

968
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,840
will,

969
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,760
and which you see a lot in the economy

970
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,679
now, and also that our jobs

971
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,840
sometimes are more vulnerable, being more

972
00:32:51,679 --> 00:32:55,600
front line work, sometimes lower paid,

973
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,679
more service industries; all of those

974
00:32:55,600 --> 00:33:00,080
things mean that women's work

975
00:32:57,679 --> 00:33:01,679
is more vulnerable. There are many things

976
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:04,159
that organisations can do

977
00:33:01,679 --> 00:33:05,519
to make that work more resilient, but by

978
00:33:04,159 --> 00:33:08,799
fixing those things

979
00:33:05,519 --> 00:33:11,279
with more sustainable, flexible models,

980
00:33:08,799 --> 00:33:12,960
you're actually fixing it for everybody,

981
00:33:11,279 --> 00:33:14,559
because men want more flexibility.

982
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,000
We all want more agency in how we're

983
00:33:14,559 --> 00:33:17,519
working, it's just that women will

984
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,919
disproportionately benefit

985
00:33:17,519 --> 00:33:21,679
and for me that is fantastic because if

986
00:33:19,919 --> 00:33:22,640
we can figure out the way to incorporate

987
00:33:21,679 --> 00:33:25,440
engagement, fun,

988
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:26,159
collaboration, community,

989
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:29,519
good health

990
00:33:26,159 --> 00:33:31,039
back, and still have 50 or 60

991
00:33:29,519 --> 00:33:32,559
more flexible working I think that's a

992
00:33:31,039 --> 00:33:35,760
great thing for 

993
00:33:32,559 --> 00:33:38,799
particularly a services,

994
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:40,640
networked economy like the UK.

995
00:33:38,799 --> 00:33:42,000
And then the last thing that gives me

996
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,279
a lot of encouragement, and I'm a

997
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,679
little bit of a data geek

998
00:33:43,279 --> 00:33:46,399
and an economics girl, but is the fact

999
00:33:45,679 --> 00:33:48,799
that with

1000
00:33:46,399 --> 00:33:49,840
good use of data we can make better

1001
00:33:48,799 --> 00:33:52,399
decisions

1002
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:54,080
and that inevitably helps women's

1003
00:33:52,399 --> 00:33:54,799
position in business and women as

1004
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,720
leaders.

1005
00:33:54,799 --> 00:33:59,279
So in the chat someone was saying,

1006
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:02,080
'will a male-dominated world

1007
00:33:59,279 --> 00:34:03,279
accept female leadership styles?': female

1008
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,440
leadership should be

1009
00:34:03,279 --> 00:34:06,559
half the population, that's all we are,

1010
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,200
right, and so

1011
00:34:06,559 --> 00:34:10,960
the way we lead should just be the

1012
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:13,359
normative way of leading,

1013
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,879
not an exception to the process, so I'm

1014
00:34:13,359 --> 00:34:17,040
just really

1015
00:34:14,879 --> 00:34:19,919
confident that with more data

1016
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:22,240
information, transparency, participation,

1017
00:34:19,919 --> 00:34:25,760
it's actually going to be a much better

1018
00:34:22,240 --> 00:34:28,320
work experience for most women, so I

1019
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:29,359
am very positive that more data

1020
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,200
transparency

1021
00:34:29,359 --> 00:34:32,480
to make better decisions will

1022
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,000
come up with better outcomes for women.

1023
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,599
We're not looking for

1024
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,200
men to accept and include us; we just

1025
00:34:35,599 --> 00:34:39,280
want a balanced environment where we can

1026
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,720
all participate.

1027
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,320
Thank you, that was a great question

1028
00:34:40,720 --> 00:34:44,320
Natalie, and a really great sensitive

1029
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:46,480
response; and Ruby, in the chat, people are

1030
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:48,000
saying they can't wait to get going so

1031
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,679
you've really sparked something out there

1032
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,839
which is good. Okay,

1033
00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:52,879
we're just over halfway through now so

1034
00:34:51,839 --> 00:34:55,040
welcome if you've just

1035
00:34:52,879 --> 00:34:56,800
joined us to today's Leadership in

1036
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:58,800
Extraordinary Times event;

1037
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:00,960
today's subject is 'Navigating the new

1038
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,800
normal: a view from female leaders'.

1039
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,560
I'm Sue Dopson, I'm joined by three

1040
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,400
eminent female leaders:

1041
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,760
Ruby McGregor-Smith, Vivian Hunt and

1042
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,520
Kathryn Bishop.

1043
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:11,839
By the way, all of these discussions are

1044
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:13,359
also available as a podcast

1045
00:35:11,839 --> 00:35:16,000
and you'll be able to download this

1046
00:35:13,359 --> 00:35:19,200
episode soon or catch up now on

1047
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:21,359
last week's event or our previous series

1048
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,880
wherever you get your podcast from: just

1049
00:35:21,359 --> 00:35:25,119
search 'Leadership in extraordinary

1050
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:28,560
times' and that should take you there.

1051
00:35:25,119 --> 00:35:31,520
Okay so back to the the panel there,

1052
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:32,240
Alison Nolan asks in the chat,

1053
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,640
what do you think

1054
00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:35,359
most needs to change in organisations to

1055
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,599
make sure

1056
00:35:35,359 --> 00:35:39,520
the very widest range of people get to

1057
00:35:37,599 --> 00:35:41,680
contribute their thinking?

1058
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:44,240
So this notion of really getting diverse

1059
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:46,160
thinking into organisational boardrooms

1060
00:35:44,240 --> 00:35:49,599
and organisations generally.

1061
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,599
Kathryn, can I start with you?

1062
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:55,040
Great question. 

1063
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,720I
I'm going to anchor my answer around the

1064
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:59,280
idea of flexibility.

1065
00:35:56,720 --> 00:36:00,000
I think there are processes and ways of

1066
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,560
working

1067
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:04,400
that have simply been swept away over

1068
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:07,520
the last 12 months,

1069
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:11,599
and let's hope they don't just rush back

1070
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:14,480
like the returning tide,

1071
00:36:11,599 --> 00:36:14,720
and that's in some ways an articulation

1072
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,359
of

1073
00:36:14,720 --> 00:36:19,200
our task. Our task, I think, is to 

1074
00:36:17,359 --> 00:36:22,400
consciously design

1075
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:25,359
ways of making sure that we

1076
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:27,599
are involving all those who need to be

1077
00:36:25,359 --> 00:36:29,359
involved, that we are hearing voices, that

1078
00:36:27,599 --> 00:36:30,560
we are understanding a range of

1079
00:36:29,359 --> 00:36:33,839
contributions

1080
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:35,680
against a wider scale of assessment

1081
00:36:33,839 --> 00:36:38,320
criteria, whether that's formal

1082
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:40,560
or informal, and this is a

1083
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:42,880
conscious kind of design activity

1084
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:44,720
that leaders at any level, in any

1085
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:46,480
organisation, can just

1086
00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:48,079
pay attention to and generate

1087
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:51,359
conversations

1088
00:36:48,079 --> 00:36:52,720
about. I think I'll leave

1089
00:36:51,359 --> 00:36:55,040
it there.

1090
00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:56,480
Okay thank you, and building on that

1091
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,640
Charlie Weston has

1092
00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:00,079
asked a question: we hear a lot from

1093
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,599
organisations saying that they're

1094
00:37:00,079 --> 00:37:02,560
working towards diversity in the

1095
00:37:01,599 --> 00:37:04,240
workplace,

1096
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:06,240
particularly seeing more women in senior

1097
00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:08,160
positions -- how much of this do you think

1098
00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:10,960
is hot air? So let me ask

1099
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:12,880
Ruby first and then Vivian to comment

1100
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:15,320
on that question.

1101
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:17,280
I find it pretty extraordinary that in

1102
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:21,119
2021

1103
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:24,079
every organisation will say

1104
00:37:21,119 --> 00:37:26,160
they're equal opportunity, they're equal

1105
00:37:24,079 --> 00:37:28,960
opportunity employers:

1106
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:30,640
everyone says that. Well if they meant it

1107
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,160
you'd see diversity and inclusion at

1108
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:35,440
every level in an organisation;

1109
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:37,520
you don't, so we've got a long way to go.

1110
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:39,839
There's a lot of talk about D and I,

1111
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:42,320
there's never ever enough action.

1112
00:37:39,839 --> 00:37:44,480
I never see organisations take the level

1113
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:48,079
of actions they should do;

1114
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,960
until leadership teams are completely

1115
00:37:48,079 --> 00:37:51,520
diverse

1116
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,960
with lived experiences it's not going

1117
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,880
to change.

1118
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,480
So I don't think it's hot air, I just

1119
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,680
think a lot of people think 'oh we must

1120
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,280
talk about this',

1121
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,680
they never do the things that are going

1122
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:03,119
to create the change they need to do.

1123
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:05,040
They chat about changing their

1124
00:38:03,119 --> 00:38:07,599
recruitment processes,

1125
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:09,119
they chat about 'oh it could take us a

1126
00:38:07,599 --> 00:38:12,880
few years, you know, to

1127
00:38:09,119 --> 00:38:16,400
train everybody' - No. Sponsor,

1128
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:17,440
sponsor, promote; it's not taking risks, it

1129
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,839
can be done.

1130
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:21,599
Two CEOs sponsored me, once upon a time,

1131
00:38:19,839 --> 00:38:24,079
to give me my first big

1132
00:38:21,599 --> 00:38:24,960
two breaks when I first became a female

1133
00:38:24,079 --> 00:38:26,480
CEO;

1134
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,720
there hadn't been one who was Asian

1135
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:30,560
before. How on earth

1136
00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:32,400
could that have taken so long? That, by

1137
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,920
the way, was in 2007 and we haven't had

1138
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:36,480
another one since.

1139
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:37,920
So I think we've got a long way to go; I

1140
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:40,640
think there's a lot of chat about

1141
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:41,599
it; there's never another enough tangible

1142
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:44,000
action plans

1143
00:38:41,599 --> 00:38:46,400
on this. I could go on about this all day,

1144
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:48,160
you know, it can be done in three years

1145
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,599
if people really want to do it but they

1146
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,440
don't, so

1147
00:38:49,599 --> 00:38:53,760
when they do want to do it, it will

1148
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:55,520
happen. We start therefore with the

1149
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:58,000
gender pay gap and all the other pay

1150
00:38:55,520 --> 00:39:00,079
gaps that show why it's so important,

1151
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:02,000
but really leadership teams need to get

1152
00:39:00,079 --> 00:39:03,760
their act together once and for all

1153
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,839
and say if they're really serious about

1154
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:07,839
it then change it and and put it through

1155
00:39:05,839 --> 00:39:11,119
the incentivisation models.

1156
00:39:07,839 --> 00:39:13,440
Business leaders ultimately work

1157
00:39:11,119 --> 00:39:14,160
well through their incentivisation

1158
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:15,760
models;

1159
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:18,320
if they're not incentivised to do it,

1160
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:20,640
they won't do it.

1161
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:21,440
And the data really backs you up on that

1162
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:24,400
point, Ruby.

1163
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:25,119
Our data shows that we

1164
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,280
have about

1165
00:39:25,119 --> 00:39:28,400
a third of organisations who are either

1166
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,920
sustaining

1167
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,839
both more representative and more

1168
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,760
inclusive organisations,

1169
00:39:31,839 --> 00:39:35,119
and/or are making rapid progress and

1170
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,800
you're absolutely right that even for

1171
00:39:35,119 --> 00:39:38,160
some quite large organisations

1172
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:40,320
you can really see the needle start to

1173
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:43,359
move after 

1174
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:44,800
about three years. There are

1175
00:39:43,359 --> 00:39:46,640
two other big categories though of

1176
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,000
companies outside of that you know a

1177
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:48,880
group that we would call resting on

1178
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,640
their laurels:

1179
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,320
you know, they've got 10 or 20

1180
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:54,160
representation on gender and a

1181
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:56,320
bunch of other things they're overly

1182
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:58,480
focused on, 

1183
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,359
inherent capabilities like the fact

1184
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,280
you're a woman

1185
00:39:59,359 --> 00:40:02,880
as opposed to acquired capabilities like

1186
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,440
what's your skill set and the managerial

1187
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,839
ability

1188
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,720
for this problem and they've not yet

1189
00:40:05,839 --> 00:40:08,240
found

1190
00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:10,160
how to manage it well. That's why

1191
00:40:08,240 --> 00:40:12,480
inclusion matters so much because

1192
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,520
managing complex workforces, complex

1193
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,200
business environments,

1194
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:17,119
we talked about all the change and the

1195
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,800
variables that Kathryn laid out,

1196
00:40:17,119 --> 00:40:20,400
you actually need managers who can

1197
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:23,599
lead and manage in

1198
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:26,800
a naturally, authentically inclusive way.

1199
00:40:23,599 --> 00:40:29,520
It's a skill set, building in

1200
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:31,359
the diversity and inclusion, just like

1201
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,800
environmental, just like good governance

1202
00:40:31,359 --> 00:40:34,720
is a skill set

1203
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:36,720
for companies, and when you treat it like

1204
00:40:34,720 --> 00:40:38,640
a skill set that can be

1205
00:40:36,720 --> 00:40:40,880
benchmarked against best practice,

1206
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:43,599
integrated into performance measurements,

1207
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,720
measured over time, celebrated for the

1208
00:40:43,599 --> 00:40:46,079
things you do right

1209
00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:48,720
and the efforts that you make even when

1210
00:40:46,079 --> 00:40:51,200
you don't achieve it, then you will see

1211
00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:52,079
real progress in many companies. About a

1212
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:55,200
third of them

1213
00:40:52,079 --> 00:40:58,240
are linking ES,

1214
00:40:55,200 --> 00:41:01,200
including D and I, and governance criteria

1215
00:40:58,240 --> 00:41:03,040
to performance and outcomes, and I'm with

1216
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,920
you Ruby: I think unless there's real

1217
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,839
targets,

1218
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:07,040
aspirational targets set by the

1219
00:41:05,839 --> 00:41:08,720
companies themselves,

1220
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:11,200
or the organisations themselves, we're

1221
00:41:08,720 --> 00:41:13,440
not going to see real progress.

1222
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,800
The last thing I would say is you also

1223
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:15,839
have to really support people in

1224
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:18,319
inclusive environments;

1225
00:41:15,839 --> 00:41:20,319
it's not just about team managers, it's also

1226
00:41:18,319 --> 00:41:23,280
about supporting people, particularly

1227
00:41:20,319 --> 00:41:25,359
when they are onlies. In some of our women

1228
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:27,520
in the workplace research you see

1229
00:41:25,359 --> 00:41:29,119
what we call 'onliness' and hyper onliness,

1230
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:31,680
you know, when you are the only woman

1231
00:41:29,119 --> 00:41:32,400
or the only, maybe, person

1232
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,400
from

1233
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:36,480
your national culture, or you're in a

1234
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,680
highly remote isolated situation; think

1235
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,599
about the North Sea oil

1236
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,720
versus being in the main head office of

1237
00:41:39,599 --> 00:41:42,800
an energy company.

1238
00:41:40,720 --> 00:41:44,480
So my point is whenever you have hyper

1239
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,160
onliness and hyper isolation,

1240
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:48,000
which can just come from the fact of

1241
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:50,560
being the only woman or the only

1242
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,599
whatever in a situation, you've also got

1243
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,440
to provide

1244
00:41:51,599 --> 00:41:54,720
support so it's not just inclusion as a

1245
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:57,119
skill set for the average,

1246
00:41:54,720 --> 00:41:57,920
it's also particularly important to

1247
00:41:57,119 --> 00:42:00,880
support

1248
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:02,319
people who are the the pioneers and at

1249
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:04,079
the front line, because they experience

1250
00:42:02,319 --> 00:42:06,240
what we call hyper isolation.

1251
00:42:04,079 --> 00:42:07,280
But I'm optimistic that companies are

1252
00:42:06,240 --> 00:42:10,319
going to

1253
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:12,240
have more sunlight

1254
00:42:10,319 --> 00:42:14,319
shown on them because you can use a lot

1255
00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:16,640
of data in analytics. 90 percent

1256
00:42:14,319 --> 00:42:18,079
of companies say this is important and

1257
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:20,480
in their top five goals

1258
00:42:18,079 --> 00:42:22,160
in the last year, and we'll see how many

1259
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:24,560
of them are treating it like a skill,

1260
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:27,040
measuring it as Ruby says, and really

1261
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:28,880
making progress.

1262
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,240
Thank you and there's lots of comments

1263
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,839
about 'bravo' in the chat

1264
00:42:30,240 --> 00:42:33,680
from the comments that you all

1265
00:42:31,839 --> 00:42:34,960
three of you've made about diversity so

1266
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:37,520
thank you for that.

1267
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:40,160
We've got Yemisi who's watching from

1268
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:41,680
Lagos in Nigeria who's asking our next

1269
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:43,359
question to the panel:

1270
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:45,359
as a woman how difficult is it to

1271
00:42:43,359 --> 00:42:46,240
navigate the challenges in the workplace

1272
00:42:45,359 --> 00:42:48,400
where 90

1273
00:42:46,240 --> 00:42:50,000
of the leaders are male? How would you

1274
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:54,640
encourage women to hold

1275
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:54,640
firm? Kathryn.

1276
00:42:56,079 --> 00:42:59,280
Well I think this is going to be one

1277
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:00,160
where you really need to hear from all

1278
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,160
three

1279
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:03,359
because we have different experiences in

1280
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:06,160
different workplaces.

1281
00:43:03,359 --> 00:43:07,359
And that's

1282
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:10,400
part of my answer:

1283
00:43:07,359 --> 00:43:12,560
that cultural and organisational context

1284
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:15,599
can make a difference

1285
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:18,160
to the way in which one does this.

1286
00:43:15,599 --> 00:43:18,960
But let me just be optimistic for a

1287
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:22,000
moment without

1288
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:25,440
being naive. I do think that

1289
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:28,240
the shared and quite dramatic

1290
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:29,599
experience that we've all been through

1291
00:43:28,240 --> 00:43:32,800
over the last 12 months

1292
00:43:29,599 --> 00:43:33,599
is going to open minds to different ways

1293
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:36,480
of leading.

1294
00:43:33,599 --> 00:43:38,400
I think it's going to have to because we

1295
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,680
will, many of us, find ourselves having to

1296
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,359
lead a hybrid team,

1297
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,640
having to run a meeting where half the

1298
00:43:41,359 --> 00:43:44,560
people are in the room and half the

1299
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:48,079
people are on screen,

1300
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:49,680
and in that sense

1301
00:43:48,079 --> 00:43:51,760
I think there is going to be an

1302
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:54,240
opportunity for

1303
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:55,520
authentic leaders of any gender 

1304
00:43:54,240 --> 00:43:59,119
 

1305
00:43:55,520 --> 00:44:02,079
who want to lead 

1306
00:43:59,119 --> 00:44:02,640
in, let's say in ways that

1307
00:44:02,079 --> 00:44:04,000
have

1308
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:06,480
been non-traditional, in that

1309
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:08,400
organisation. The thing to do, I think, is

1310
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:11,440
to spot those opportunities

1311
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:13,280
to lead authentically and then

1312
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:15,280
support those who are

1313
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:18,160
doing so even if they're leading

1314
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:18,160
differently from you.

1315
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:25,119
Vivian, do you want to comment? I think

1316
00:44:22,079 --> 00:44:27,359
that whether you're in an

1317
00:44:25,119 --> 00:44:28,400
environment at work or at home, and

1318
00:44:27,359 --> 00:44:31,359
societally

1319
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:32,240
where there's a critical mass of women

1320
00:44:31,359 --> 00:44:34,160
around you it

1321
00:44:32,240 --> 00:44:35,839
really makes a big difference if you get

1322
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,680
past the 25 or 30 per cent

1323
00:44:35,839 --> 00:44:39,200
mark. So 10 people are in a room, three of

1324
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:40,560
them are women and it doesn't matter

1325
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:42,160
that one happens to be

1326
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:44,400
the team leader and two others are very

1327
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,839
junior, but it just changes the nature of

1328
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:47,200
the conversation; we all know

1329
00:44:45,839 --> 00:44:48,480
that if we were just having a chat

1330
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,760
amongst women we might talk about

1331
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:50,880
slightly different set of things than if

1332
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:53,200
you were having a chat

1333
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,319
amongst men, and what men talk about when

1334
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:57,119
women aren't around, I

1335
00:44:54,319 --> 00:44:58,240
actually have no idea. So my point is

1336
00:44:57,119 --> 00:45:00,240
just to say

1337
00:44:58,240 --> 00:45:02,000
that cultural affinity of critical mass

1338
00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:04,000
is a big differentiator, so if you're in

1339
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,200
a situation where you are a leader or

1340
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,960
you're on a team

1341
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:08,400
where you've got hyper onliness, you might

1342
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,040
be the only woman, you might also be

1343
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:10,800
junior,

1344
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:13,440
you might also not be an expert in the

1345
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:15,680
area, it is very important to have allies

1346
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:17,680
and people who are sponsoring and aware

1347
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:20,960
of the fact that the

1348
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:21,440
context which you're in means that

1349
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:22,880
you may

1350
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,880
face more challenges or more

1351
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:27,040
institutional or cultural inertia,

1352
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:28,319
even if your own company is doing things

1353
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:30,480
by the book. You know, I faced many

1354
00:45:28,319 --> 00:45:33,119
challenges at clients when I was working

1355
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:34,720
and doing my career at

1356
00:45:33,119 --> 00:45:36,160
McKinsey, you know, I'd felt perfectly

1357
00:45:34,720 --> 00:45:36,720
fine in the McKinsey team but then the

1358
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,079
client

1359
00:45:36,720 --> 00:45:40,000
might have a different culture and so

1360
00:45:38,079 --> 00:45:40,960
forth, so you really need people on the

1361
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:43,280
teams

1362
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,640
who are your immediate working team -- I

1363
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:46,079
don't just mean your CEO but your

1364
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:48,880
immediate working team,

1365
00:45:46,079 --> 00:45:50,240
who are aware of your multiple

1366
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:50,800
dimensions of diversity in your skill

1367
00:45:50,240 --> 00:45:52,960
sets,

1368
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:54,319
who support you, which includes

1369
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,400
supporting your development and

1370
00:45:54,319 --> 00:45:58,000
also tough feedback when it's needed, and

1371
00:45:56,400 --> 00:46:00,079
who you can talk to.

1372
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:02,000
I also personally always have a kitchen

1373
00:46:00,079 --> 00:46:02,800
cabinet, you know: I've got a group of six

1374
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,119
or seven

1375
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:07,040
people, some men, some women who are

1376
00:46:05,119 --> 00:46:08,640
people who I talk to outside of work;

1377
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:10,560
my partner is one of them but

1378
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,920
former coaches and mentors from

1379
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:14,480
previous jobs and

1380
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:16,319
one or two girlfriends who also are

1381
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:18,000
people I talk to just to calibrate,

1382
00:46:16,319 --> 00:46:19,440
to make sure that I'm not exaggerating

1383
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:22,560
things in my own mind,

1384
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:24,000
or worse, minimising things when I should

1385
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:25,040
be speaking up, you know, and I'm just

1386
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:27,040
saying 

1387
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:29,040
we're learning, we're trying, so forth,and

1388
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,640
so on, and sometimes you overlook

1389
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,480
things because you're hardened -

1390
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:33,760
we call it weathering - hardened

1391
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:37,280
to the environment.

1392
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:39,040
So my point is, one, recognise if you've

1393
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,000
got a critical mass of like-minded

1394
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:42,480
people

1395
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:44,560
be that by gender or background or not

1396
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:46,480
and if you don't have that around you,

1397
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:47,680
and I see lots of people in the chat

1398
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:48,800
are talking about the

1399
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,800
challenges of being from an

1400
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:52,800
underprivileged background or challenges

1401
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:54,880
from being in an all-male environment,

1402
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:56,480
you know, really build a home

1403
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:58,319
team around you at work,

1404
00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:00,240
and also outside of work, but it's very

1405
00:46:58,319 --> 00:47:03,200
important, that it's at work.

1406
00:47:00,240 --> 00:47:05,680
60 to 70 percent of your outcomes at work are

1407
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:07,440
determined by things that your manager

1408
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:09,440
and the company you work in can do

1409
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:11,359
something positive about,

1410
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:12,560
and so you have to let people know where

1411
00:47:11,359 --> 00:47:15,040
the pressure points are

1412
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:15,599
and most people will want to help. Thank

1413
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:17,119
you,

1414
00:47:15,599 --> 00:47:18,960
and Ruby; I think Kathryn is right: this

1415
00:47:17,119 --> 00:47:20,079
is a question for all of you. Ruby, do you

1416
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,920
have a comment?

1417
00:47:20,079 --> 00:47:23,200
Just a couple of final

1418
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:25,119
reflections as

1419
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:27,200
I so much agree with what's been

1420
00:47:25,119 --> 00:47:29,839
said by Vivian and Kathryn so far.

1421
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,720
I think when you walk into a

1422
00:47:29,839 --> 00:47:32,800
workplace

1423
00:47:30,720 --> 00:47:34,480
and you're in a really small minority, as

1424
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:35,119
I've always found in my career I have

1425
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,839
been

1426
00:47:35,119 --> 00:47:40,079
with the industries I've worked in, it's

1427
00:47:37,839 --> 00:47:44,000
incredibly lonely,

1428
00:47:40,079 --> 00:47:45,520
really lonely. You crave fitting in.

1429
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:47,520
When we used to be allowed to walk into

1430
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:49,839
a room together

1431
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:51,040
you wanted to not stand out, you didn't

1432
00:47:49,839 --> 00:47:53,760
want people to be

1433
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:55,440
looking at you and wondering about you,

1434
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:58,640
you just wanted to be to fit

1435
00:47:55,440 --> 00:48:02,000
in, and it took me a long time to work

1436
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:04,079
out that standing out was okay,

1437
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,599
being different was okay, so when I say

1438
00:48:04,079 --> 00:48:08,720
being different, being a mum

1439
00:48:05,599 --> 00:48:10,400
was okay, being someone that that didn't

1440
00:48:08,720 --> 00:48:13,920
quite look like a,

1441
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:16,319
well basically being Asian was okay,

1442
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:18,800
looking the way I did was okay because I

1443
00:48:16,319 --> 00:48:20,800
just look so different to everybody else,

1444
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:22,640
and I think what you have to do is -- it

1445
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:23,359
comes back to this point about how to

1446
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,040
cope.

1447
00:48:23,359 --> 00:48:27,359
It's the resilience piece, it's

1448
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:29,119
understanding that you bring great skill

1449
00:48:27,359 --> 00:48:31,200
but it's making sure you've got someone

1450
00:48:29,119 --> 00:48:33,440
great you work for,

1451
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:35,359
who can really nurture and support you.

1452
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:37,040
The number of people I meet

1453
00:48:35,359 --> 00:48:38,480
who are simply working in the wrong

1454
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:40,240
organisations,

1455
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:41,839
who don't look wider, who wonder why

1456
00:48:40,240 --> 00:48:43,520
they're not succeeding,

1457
00:48:41,839 --> 00:48:45,359
do you know it isn't always because of

1458
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:47,200
you? It is because you might be in the

1459
00:48:45,359 --> 00:48:48,800
wrong culture or the wrong place,

1460
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:51,280
and you need to really fight to make

1461
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:53,839
sure you understand why things don't

1462
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,960
always feel right in the workplace, so

1463
00:48:53,839 --> 00:48:58,480
all I would say

1464
00:48:54,960 --> 00:49:01,119
more than anything is it's okay to feel

1465
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:02,720
all of these things but you need those

1466
00:49:01,119 --> 00:49:04,240
allies, as Vivian said:

1467
00:49:02,720 --> 00:49:06,319
you need them in the workplace, you need

1468
00:49:04,240 --> 00:49:08,160
them outside the workplace;

1469
00:49:06,319 --> 00:49:09,440
you need, as I've always said, a support

1470
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:11,839
unit,

1471
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:13,280
a team that's kind of around you every

1472
00:49:11,839 --> 00:49:16,319
stage of your career,

1473
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:18,640
to make sure you can move forward.

1474
00:49:16,319 --> 00:49:20,000
Thank you, we have a lovely question from

1475
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:22,720
Shaaheen Massouleh

1476
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:23,760
from London: as a father of two bright

1477
00:49:22,720 --> 00:49:26,000
ladies

1478
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:28,160
how do I support our Millennial and Z

1479
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:30,480
female generation to lead

1480
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:31,520
the exponential changes ahead of them? So

1481
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:33,760
really

1482
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:35,760
interesting question. Vivian, do

1483
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:37,839
you want to start?

1484
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:39,520
Well Shaaheen, I'm smiling because you're

1485
00:49:37,839 --> 00:49:41,520
you are raising my daughters, you know
:1486
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:43,359
when I was younger I just knew

1487
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:45,040
that I was put on the earth to raise

1488
00:49:43,359 --> 00:49:45,920
good girls, I was like 'I'm going to raise

1489
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:47,599
some girls,

1490
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:49,200
they are going to have their minds together,

1491
00:49:47,599 --> 00:49:50,960
they're going to be confident in themselves,

1492
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:52,240
and so forth and so on' and you know I

1493
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:55,359
stand here today,

1494
00:49:52,240 --> 00:49:57,200
the mother of two boys.

1495
00:49:55,359 --> 00:49:58,880
And they're also very boyish as

1496
00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:59,359
teenagers, right, they've got all the sort

1497
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:02,000
of

1498
00:49:59,359 --> 00:50:03,920
problems that normal teenage boys have,

1499
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:05,680
so I thought maybe I'm trying to raise,

1500
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:07,440
Shaaheen, someone who's got your mindset

1501
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:09,119
who asks the question explicitly.

1502
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:11,520
What I would just say, and this is just

1503
00:50:09,119 --> 00:50:13,760
teenagers -- communication.

1504
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:14,880
Remember they're digital natives

1505
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:16,640
but they're not

1506
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:18,079
they're not digital, 

1507
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:19,599
they're not robots, they're humans.

1508
00:50:18,079 --> 00:50:21,200
They're just humans communicating with

1509
00:50:19,599 --> 00:50:23,200
their generation in a different way,

1510
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:25,440
that happens to be on a digital platform,

1511
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:26,319
my 14 year old sees meeting his friends

1512
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:27,839
online

1513
00:50:26,319 --> 00:50:29,520
almost as legitimate as a social

1514
00:50:27,839 --> 00:50:30,000
activity; for me I wouldn't count it that

1515
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:33,280
way.

1516
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:36,240
So just stay in conversation with

1517
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:37,920
your daughters, be present where they are

1518
00:50:36,240 --> 00:50:39,440
and ask them what's on their mind, and if

1519
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:42,160
you keep them communicating

1520
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:42,559
and show them lots of good role models

1521
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:44,960
and

1522
00:50:42,559 --> 00:50:46,480
really anchor in them that they can be

1523
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:48,000
anything they want to be,

1524
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:50,319
they'll take that lesson away, they'll

1525
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:53,119
remember it.

1526
00:50:50,319 --> 00:50:56,640
Thank you, anybody on the panel also want

1527
00:50:53,119 --> 00:50:59,920
to comment on that really good question?

1528
00:50:56,640 --> 00:51:02,000
Just a couple of things,

1529
00:50:59,920 --> 00:51:03,760
you know I'm a mum of a girl and a

1530
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:05,599
boy,

1531
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:06,880
and certainly for my daughter

1532
00:51:05,599 --> 00:51:08,160
I've always said to her, 'you can be

1533
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:10,319
whatever you want to be

1534
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:12,559
and I'll be there to support you', but the

1535
00:51:10,319 --> 00:51:14,720
way they communicate, the way they think

1536
00:51:12,559 --> 00:51:16,720
is different, but despite all their

1537
00:51:14,720 --> 00:51:18,640
differences they still have these

1538
00:51:16,720 --> 00:51:20,880
the big things we have to build in them

1539
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:22,319
which is very much around resilience,

1540
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:23,599
and also being able to deal with

1541
00:51:22,319 --> 00:51:24,400
knockbacks, because they're going to get

1542
00:51:23,599 --> 00:51:26,960
them.

1543
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:27,520
None of us like failure, none of

1544
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:30,559
us like

1545
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:32,559
setbacks, none of us like any of that;

1546
00:51:30,559 --> 00:51:34,640
just keep supporting them to be

1547
00:51:32,559 --> 00:51:36,000
resilient. The pandemic has shown us more

1548
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:38,319
than anything

1549
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:39,599
about the lack of resilience so many of

1550
00:51:38,319 --> 00:51:41,680
us have,

1551
00:51:39,599 --> 00:51:42,960
in so many ways at times, we've all had

1552
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:44,160
it and it's something we've all got to

1553
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:46,160
keep working on.

1554
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:47,839
But with that generation it's just

1555
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:49,440
constantly reminding them

1556
00:51:47,839 --> 00:51:51,520
that you know especially that they've got

1557
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:52,880
incredibly supportive parents who can

1558
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:54,079
really help them,

1559
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:58,640
because when they get out in the real

1560
00:51:54,079 --> 00:51:58,640
world it may not always quite go to plan.

1561
00:51:59,359 --> 00:52:03,119
And Kathryn, do you want to add

1562
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:04,640
anything?

1563
00:52:03,119 --> 00:52:06,559
I think that point about not always

1564
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:08,800
going to plan is quite right.

1565
00:52:06,559 --> 00:52:09,839
It's one of the reasons why a bit of

1566
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:12,480
reflection

1567
00:52:09,839 --> 00:52:14,640
can be very helpful because sometimes

1568
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:16,240
the catastrophe that occurs in one's

1569
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:18,319
working life and, goodness knows,

1570
00:52:16,240 --> 00:52:19,280
we've all had them to greater or lesser

1571
00:52:18,319 --> 00:52:21,520
extent,

1572
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:22,960
can subsequently be the point where you

1573
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:24,079
realise you have really learned

1574
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:26,640
something different

1575
00:52:24,079 --> 00:52:28,559
about yourself, about what to do about

1576
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:30,880
the organisation you work in.

1577
00:52:28,559 --> 00:52:32,800
That learning may not be obvious for

1578
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:34,880
for a while but it's not necessarily

1579
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:36,559
the catastrophe that it seemed at the

1580
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:37,920
time; and that's really just an

1581
00:52:36,559 --> 00:52:38,880
illustration of this point about

1582
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:40,960
resilience

1583
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:43,760
and endeavoring to take the medium

1584
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:46,480
to long-term view.

1585
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:47,599
Thank you, good question here about

1586
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:50,319
anti-vaccine

1587
00:52:47,599 --> 00:52:51,839
sentiment rising, and more people stating

1588
00:52:50,319 --> 00:52:52,720
they don't want to take the COVID

1589
00:52:51,839 --> 00:52:54,640
vaccine.

1590
00:52:52,720 --> 00:52:56,480
what are your thoughts on what role

1591
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:57,760
leaders, in particular women leaders, need

1592
00:52:56,480 --> 00:53:00,960
to play? So that's from

1593
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:04,079
Soraya. Vivian, do you want to

1594
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:04,720
comment on that? Well I certainly am

1595
00:53:04,079 --> 00:53:07,599
comfortable

1596
00:53:04,720 --> 00:53:09,760
that the amount of research and

1597
00:53:07,599 --> 00:53:12,240
validation of the vaccines, as well as,

1598
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:14,720
Ruby, the story you were sharing earlier

1599
00:53:12,240 --> 00:53:16,400
about your own family, my own mother and

1600
00:53:14,720 --> 00:53:18,720
mother-in-law who are shielding,

1601
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:20,800
I am very confident that the

1602
00:53:18,720 --> 00:53:23,680
vaccine is making a positive difference

1603
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:24,319
and should be safe and made available

1604
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:26,559
to

1605
00:53:24,319 --> 00:53:27,599
everyone in the right priority groups,

1606
00:53:26,559 --> 00:53:30,640
and if there are

1607
00:53:27,599 --> 00:53:32,480
doubters, what we need is trusted

1608
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:33,680
leaders to communicate with those groups

1609
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:38,079
who may have

1610
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:40,720
health

1611
00:53:38,079 --> 00:53:42,079
policy, political or any other reason for

1612
00:53:40,720 --> 00:53:43,440
not trusting that information.

1613
00:53:42,079 --> 00:53:44,720
But I hope that we can that's something

1614
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:46,640
that we can all agree on is more

1615
00:53:44,720 --> 00:53:47,920
information to make informed choices,

1616
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:49,760
because we know that vaccine

1617
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:51,280
dissemination and scaling to herd

1618
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:53,599
immunity will save lives,

1619
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:54,319
and that really is the the first thing

1620
00:53:53,599 --> 00:53:56,319
on my mind.

1621
00:53:54,319 --> 00:53:58,000
So I don't know why people are coming

1622
00:53:56,319 --> 00:53:58,960
with a point of view and we're allowed

1623
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:01,359
to have the debate,

1624
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:02,960
but I certainly, I would just strongly

1625
00:54:01,359 --> 00:54:04,800
stand with the scientific evidence

1626
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:06,720
and encourage us to scale it and find

1627
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:10,000
role models for each community

1628
00:54:06,720 --> 00:54:11,440
so that people get the message

1629
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:13,760
and hopefully take all the precautions

1630
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:13,760
they can.

1631
00:54:13,839 --> 00:54:17,839
Okay, we started this conversation by

1632
00:54:16,240 --> 00:54:19,280
thinking about the lessons that

1633
00:54:17,839 --> 00:54:20,720
we've learned from the past and what we

1634
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:21,680
needed in the future in terms of

1635
00:54:20,720 --> 00:54:23,440
leadership.

1636
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:26,000
I'm going to ask the the panellists to

1637
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:29,200
focus now on the present

1638
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:32,319
and give some advice about the one thing

1639
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:35,520
that we, as women leaders, can do

1640
00:54:32,319 --> 00:54:37,359
now to prepare for the next normal,

1641
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:39,839
so really bringing us down to the

1642
00:54:37,359 --> 00:54:43,680
present and getting your views about

1643
00:54:39,839 --> 00:54:47,119
preparation for us as women.

1644
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:47,119
Kathryn, let me go to you first.

1645
00:54:48,240 --> 00:54:52,079
I think we are all going to have some

1646
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:54,160
choices ahead,

1647
00:54:52,079 --> 00:54:55,760
every single one of us, individuals and

1648
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:59,680
organisations;

1649
00:54:55,760 --> 00:55:01,040
it may even just be how many days a week

1650
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:03,680
to go into the office,

1651
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:06,240
and we've talked a little bit about that

1652
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:08,720
choice earlier in this conversation.

1653
00:55:06,240 --> 00:55:10,559
It might be about boundaries; how

1654
00:55:08,720 --> 00:55:13,440
you're going to set your own

1655
00:55:10,559 --> 00:55:14,880
working and home life boundaries, but

1656
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:15,680
there are definitely going to be some

1657
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:18,000
decisions,

1658
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:19,040
some options to choose from that we're

1659
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:22,400
going to have to make,

1660
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:23,599
all of us. And so I think to prepare for

1661
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:26,240
those decisions

1662
00:55:23,599 --> 00:55:28,720
the one thing we could do now is to

1663
00:55:26,240 --> 00:55:30,720
do a bit of recharging and reflecting,

1664
00:55:28,720 --> 00:55:32,720
and the trouble is that's really easy to

1665
00:55:30,720 --> 00:55:34,720
say but very hard to do

1666
00:55:32,720 --> 00:55:35,839
when we absolutely know the pressures

1667
00:55:34,720 --> 00:55:38,559
that are on

1668
00:55:35,839 --> 00:55:39,680
leaders of all kinds, employees of all

1669
00:55:38,559 --> 00:55:42,400
kinds,

1670
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:43,359
in every organisation. So here's just one

1671
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:45,760
thing that I am

1672
00:55:43,359 --> 00:55:47,040
mentally trying to do and it's

1673
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:48,319
actually in response,

1674
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:50,240
partly in response, to one of the

1675
00:55:48,319 --> 00:55:53,280
questions that was asked in the chat.

1676
00:55:50,240 --> 00:55:55,680
I am building my own personal list of

1677
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:59,599
stuff that I am not going to do

1678
00:55:55,680 --> 00:56:02,799
when we go back to normal. For example,

1679
00:55:59,599 --> 00:56:06,000
long meetings,

1680
00:56:02,799 --> 00:56:09,040
recruitment panels that are entirely

1681
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:12,079
non-diverse,

1682
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:13,920
presentism - a sense of ooh not in the

1683
00:56:12,079 --> 00:56:14,640
office well we'll just carry on without

1684
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:17,119
them.

1685
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:19,200
So those are some of the things on my

1686
00:56:17,119 --> 00:56:19,599
list. Let me issue a challenge to each of

1687
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:22,480
you;

1688
00:56:19,599 --> 00:56:23,200
what's on your list? Not just stuff that

1689
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:25,119
you want to do,

1690
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:27,200
not stuff to add to your list, but stuff

1691
00:56:25,119 --> 00:56:30,640
that you're consciously not going to do

1692
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:34,000
as we go into the next normal.

1693
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:36,720
Thank you, and Ruby?

1694
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:38,559
I think for me, I think that having

1695
00:56:36,720 --> 00:56:39,280
always run growth businesses, my

1696
00:56:38,559 --> 00:56:40,480
obsession

1697
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:43,040
in business has always been about

1698
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:43,599
business growth and how to prepare for

1699
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:46,319
the next

1700
00:56:43,599 --> 00:56:48,000
generation of businesses that are going

1701
00:56:46,319 --> 00:56:49,280
to grow and be really brilliant as they

1702
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:51,599
come out of this,

1703
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:52,559
and so I think, for me,

1704
00:56:51,599 --> 00:56:54,160
leaders today

1705
00:56:52,559 --> 00:56:56,559
need to be thinking about what's really

1706
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:58,240
going to come, what the positives are,

1707
00:56:56,559 --> 00:57:00,319
and are they ready?

1708
00:56:58,240 --> 00:57:02,240
Are they really ready? Are they as tech

1709
00:57:00,319 --> 00:57:04,559
enabled as they need to be?

1710
00:57:02,240 --> 00:57:05,440
Have they decided what working practices

1711
00:57:04,559 --> 00:57:07,280
they're going to kick

1712
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:08,880
people with or which ones they're going

1713
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:10,960
to completely ditch?

1714
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:12,000
That's what they all need to be doing

1715
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:15,119
because my view is

1716
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:17,440
that unless we get ready,

1717
00:57:15,119 --> 00:57:18,720
when things do open up in Britain and

1718
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:21,040
elsewhere,

1719
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:21,839
it's those that have really thought

1720
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:23,599
through

1721
00:57:21,839 --> 00:57:25,119
how they're going to open up, what

1722
00:57:23,599 --> 00:57:26,720
they're really going to be,

1723
00:57:25,119 --> 00:57:29,359
and how they're going to work but I

1724
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:32,880
think are going to be the big winners.

1725
00:57:29,359 --> 00:57:32,880
Thank you, and Vivian?

1726
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:36,720
I mean, I think the way of working is

1727
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:38,079
the biggest thing; I would say I don't

1728
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:40,559
think I personally

1729
00:57:38,079 --> 00:57:42,160
or most businesses, will go back to

1730
00:57:40,559 --> 00:57:44,799
whatever your old model was,

1731
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:46,319
and that is, I think, you know at a

1732
00:57:44,799 --> 00:57:48,000
global scale; that could be between 20

1733
00:57:46,319 --> 00:57:48,720
and 40 percent shift in our workforce

1734
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:50,640
changes,

1735
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:52,640
and it's very linked to technology

1736
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:54,400
enablement, and you have

1737
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:56,240
many homes that don't have

1738
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:57,359
enough digital access and so forth so

1739
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:59,599
this notion of

1740
00:57:57,359 --> 00:58:01,520
digitisation as an infrastructure, no

1741
00:57:59,599 --> 00:58:04,880
different than our roads or our buses

1742
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:05,359
or our water system or our aviation

1743
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:08,720
system,

1744
00:58:05,359 --> 00:58:10,400
Ruby. And secondly, that

1745
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:12,240
on that digital platform we'll have a

1746
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:13,040
lot more choice and flexibility about

1747
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:14,799
how we work,

1748
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:16,000
very few people in generation Z are

1749
00:58:14,799 --> 00:58:17,200
thinking about starting a brick -- when

1750
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,640
they say start a business,

1751
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:20,960
they don't even think about a bricks and

1752
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:23,839
mortar business, or the fact that

1753
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:24,799
in Arcadia the brands and the sales are

1754
00:58:23,839 --> 00:58:26,880
now separated

1755
00:58:24,799 --> 00:58:28,480
totally from the real estate, that's not

1756
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:30,240
an unusual business model.

1757
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:31,520
And so the combination of the technology

1758
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:34,079
that's available to us,

1759
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:36,319
plus the fact that we just can't go back

1760
00:58:34,079 --> 00:58:38,000
to the way we were before just means

1761
00:58:36,319 --> 00:58:40,079
this way of working thing, for me, is

1762
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:41,680
probably the biggest immediate thing and

1763
00:58:40,079 --> 00:58:44,160
for you to decide,

1764
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:45,040
what is it that we as a family, I as a

1765
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:47,839
person,

1766
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:49,839
you and your heart and skill set want to

1767
00:58:47,839 --> 00:58:52,400
do? What model will work best for you? And

1768
00:58:49,839 --> 00:58:55,440
in a way, find an employer in a context

1769
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:58,319
that works well with that. We know

1770
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:59,280
that a huge amount of dislocation in the

1771
00:58:58,319 --> 00:59:02,079
workforce

1772
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:04,240
is disproportionately being carried by

1773
00:59:02,079 --> 00:59:06,240
women so 54 or 55 percent

1774
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:08,240
for example of U.S. redundancies and

1775
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:09,119
furlough are carried by women who are

1776
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:11,119
only 39 percent

1777
00:59:09,119 --> 00:59:13,280
of the workforce, but that's not just

1778
00:59:11,119 --> 00:59:15,520
because of care responsibilities

1779
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:17,440
and vulnerable, more vulnerable frontline

1780
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:17,760
work, it's also because some women are

1781
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:21,680
just

1782
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:24,880
choosing to hit pause 

1783
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:27,040
before they hit a stress point, and

1784
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:28,960
your resilience and knowing your

1785
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:30,799
boundaries is very linked to how you

1786
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:34,559
work. We spend so much time at work

1787
00:59:30,799 --> 00:59:36,319
and our professional outcomes,

1788
00:59:34,559 --> 00:59:37,680
and it's a huge part of who we are.

1789
00:59:36,319 --> 00:59:38,720
Work is just as important to women

1790
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:41,839
as it is to men,

1791
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:44,000
and so I just would say finding a

1792
00:59:41,839 --> 00:59:45,920
model of working that works for you and

1793
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:47,599
if it's not in the company you're in or

1794
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:49,280
with the people you're working with,

1795
00:59:47,599 --> 00:59:50,960
you know I'm with you, I'm with Ruby:

1796
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:52,720
have the courage to change

1797
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:54,400
that way of working, but that's the

1798
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:55,440
biggest near-term change I would focus

1799
00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:56,960
on.

1800
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:59,200
Thank you and I'm really conscious of

1801
00:59:56,960 --> 01:00:00,640
time. I'm so sorry we couldn't get to

1802
00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:01,440
more of your questions but it's been a

1803
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:04,640
very rich

1804
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:06,559
discussion. Before I thank my guests, I

1805
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:08,079
do hope that you'll be able to join us

1806
01:00:06,559 --> 01:00:09,920
for our next leadership and

1807
01:00:08,079 --> 01:00:11,680
extraordinary times event:

1808
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:13,839
how capital markets can take

1809
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:16,079
sustainability to the next level. The

1810
01:00:13,839 --> 01:00:17,680
panel is amazing; it includes Blackrock

1811
01:00:16,079 --> 01:00:19,359
senior managing director,

1812
01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:21,280
and the Deputy Secretary General of the

1813
01:00:19,359 --> 01:00:22,240
International Organization of Securities

1814
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:25,359
Commissions.

1815
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:28,079
So thank you very much indeed, it's next

1816
01:00:25,359 --> 01:00:30,400
Tuesday, February the 16th at 2pm.

1817
01:00:28,079 --> 01:00:31,119
I hope you take the time,

1818
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:34,000
don't miss it,

1819
01:00:31,119 --> 01:00:34,400
it'll be great. So a huge thank you to my

1820
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:37,839


1821
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:39,520
three, really helpful comments that

1822
01:00:37,839 --> 01:00:41,680
you've made as guests, have been

1823
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:42,720
marvellous. I think there's been a lot of

1824
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:45,040
reflection

1825
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:46,319
and I'm really positive, that's really

1826
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:48,799
important as well. So

1827
01:00:46,319 --> 01:00:49,680
keep going and thank you so much and

1828
01:00:48,799 --> 01:00:51,359
thank you for

1829
01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:53,760
for listening and the questions that you

1830
01:00:51,359 --> 01:00:55,680
gave; they were really, really helpful

1831
01:00:53,760 --> 01:01:11,839
Okay have a good rest and keep safe.

1832
01:00:55,680 --> 01:01:11,839
Thank you very much.

1833
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:21,760